re: Atheists die sooner, are ill longer, and lead less happy lives than non-atheists

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The bible as you know it was compiled, translated, and edited by members of the church hundreds and thousands of years after Christ. Do we really have to go into how corrupt men of the cloth can be?? Jesus may have been as amazing and inspirational and holy as the gospels say, but we have ample proof that the men who followed him were far from that. And they're the ones who chose what words you're reading. All human men, all with an agenda.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

Well, I read this whole thread this afternoon when I ran across it after lunch. I'd share a few thoughts.

First off, there's a lot that you have to take on faith in the mainstream scientific explanation of the why and how of anything being here. For this universe to be so finely tuned for sentient life pretty much requires an infinite number of universes for that fine tuning to appear. None of them ever have or can be observed, if they exist. There are innumerable examples like this throughout this theory. An atheist who demands pictures or objective evidence is being hypocritical when they do so.

The statement was also made about the trustworthiness of the bible. You made the case for the original manuscripts, but you made a jump from that based on an assumption-translations ARE suspect. There are no word for word translations from the greek/hebrew/aramaic to the English that can be made. It only takes the change in translation of a few words in important places to change the meaning you will get from that text. I'm a staunch bible believer, but not of the translations. In my view, the mainstream of Christianity has gotten some things wrong because of this. That's opened the door for criticism from atheists, which makes it harder for people to see the true light of scripture, and where science is actually pointing to. It's becoming more and more obvious to them that this universe is a created thing, with an intelligence behind it. They are careful to posit that intelligence as 'alien' or 'higher' or even human beings of the future instead of using the word that most theists would use-God.

I was speaking to the poster who posted the list of the manuscripts, you are correct. Didn't feel like going back and quoting everything and everyone who said various things throughout this thread. I knew the post was going to get long anyway, and for most people on these boards, long is unreadable :)

But I did have some further comments to you, which is why I hit the 'reply' key on your particular post. Since you replied, I'll touch on some of that. There's a lot of harmony between what you describe and what I believe I see. I have a slightly different take on it though. First off, I do not believe in a fall-this universe is a womb for sentient life, and it is formed to create that. The bible is all about that, in reality. The light of God is in us all, and it is our selfish desires that cause the projection you speak about, and traps us within the limitations we attribute to the body. That's 'sin', and we all have it. The darkness anyone projects into the world is a product of their own making.

When the apostle Paul spoke to the Athenians, he told them that God had created man to search for Him. Everything serves that purpose and drives us towards answering that question. The light of God we sometimes see in others draws us too, or they light they see in us draws others, if we get out of the way of it.

How do you know don't infer that they are afraid of dying because you are, go find one and ask them. No need to report back I don't care for all you know they could all live fufulling lives & be fine with it.

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Obviously not 100% of athiest care but by what I read in these threads and how literally all athiest I know is how I come that conclusion. A football discussion with them and they will turn it into how I shouldnt believe in a God. I even have coworkers like that. I never bring up religion in a conversation and honestly try to avoid it for the most part.

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Maybe you just know a lot of annoying people. The same type of annoying people exist on the religious side that want to shove it in your face every chance they get. I never bring up religion or lack thereof in normal conversation. I know lots of people as well who do though on both sides.

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For this universe to be so finely tuned for sentient life pretty much requires an infinite number of universes for that fine tuning to appear.

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Well this isn't true on almost any level so....

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It's becoming more and more obvious to them that this universe is a created thing, with an intelligence behind it. They are careful to posit that intelligence as 'alien' or 'higher' or even human beings of the future instead of using the word that most theists would use-God.

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Please show me where mainstream science is saying this. Thanks in advance.

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That conversation literally never comes up in my groups, and there are several atheists

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Well, it does in mine, although I"m married with kids so I don't hang out with my old friends as much. The other day one of mine posted on FB about how he doesn't see anything wrong with him as an athiest celebrating Christmas, though, he said Xmas and explained why he left Christ out. Not one Christian cared nor responded, it was just a bunch of athiest responding to his post, when I say a bunch, I mean 2 or 3. I wanted to IM him and tell him nobody cares if you put Xmas instead of Christmas, and nobody cares that you are an athiest celebrating Christmas, but I didnt' b/c this dude can carry on a conversation for years without stopping. I rarely even text him anymore. Again, they are good people, and I enjoyed hanging with all of them, but they are the one's that have fits with me being a Christian, I tell them all the time I don't care they arent religious and its none of my business.

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 It's becoming more and more obvious to them that this universe is a created thing, with an intelligence behind it. They are careful to posit that intelligence as 'alien' or 'higher' or even human beings of the future instead of using the word that most theists would use-God.

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The entire post is bullshite, this is just the cherry on top

We now know, since Darwin and that other thing, evidence by the ton, that there was never a garden of eden. There was absolutely no Adam and Eve. No apple or snake.

So, there was no original sin. There was no eating of the forbidden apple. No salvation necessary. The whole tale collapses on itself.

Mike dropped.