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Article: Why French Kids Don't Have ADHD
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:35 am
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:35 am
Psychology Today
In the United States, child psychiatrists consider ADHD
yesterday on the poli board we were having a discussion about drug policies, specifically the banning of drugs in the US. the basis was centered around an article about the rise in heroin use. the primary discussion on that specific point was based around the fact that opioid addiction is often created via legal means (prescribing opiate-based medications).
one point that those who want to ban drugs (instead of looking at addiction as the issue) couldn't really respond to was how we love to hand out amphetamine-based stimulants like candy (primarily to treat ADD/ADHD) while banning methamphetamine. seeing this article made me welcome hearing defenses of this drug abuse in another sphere.
ETA: i know this was posted a few years ago today but it was re-posted today on psychology today's facebook and it's a new era for drug policy compared to 2013
quote:
In the United States, at least 9 percent of school-aged children have been diagnosed with ADHD, and are taking pharmaceutical medications. In France, the percentage of kids diagnosed and medicated for ADHD is less than .5 percent. How has the epidemic of ADHD—firmly established in the U.S.—almost completely passed over children in France?
In the United States, child psychiatrists consider ADHD
quote:
to be a biological disorder with biological causes. The preferred treatment is also biological—psycho stimulant medications such as Ritalin and Adderall.
French child psychiatrists, on the other hand, view ADHD as a medical condition that has psycho-social and situational causes. Instead of treating children's focusing and behavioral problems with drugs, French doctors prefer to look for the underlying issue that is causing the child distress—not in the child's brain but in the child's social context. They then choose to treat the underlying social context problem with psychotherapy or family counseling. This is a very different way of seeing things from the American tendency to attribute all symptoms to a biological dysfunction such as a chemical imbalance in the child's brain.
quote:
From the time their children are born, French parents provide them with a firm cadre—the word means "frame" or "structure." Children are not allowed, for example, to snack whenever they want. Mealtimes are at four specific times of the day. French children learn to wait patiently for meals, rather than eating snack foods whenever they feel like it. French babies, too, are expected to conform to limits set by parents and not by their crying selves. French parents let their babies "cry it out" (for no more than a few minutes of course) if they are not sleeping through the night at the age of four months.
yesterday on the poli board we were having a discussion about drug policies, specifically the banning of drugs in the US. the basis was centered around an article about the rise in heroin use. the primary discussion on that specific point was based around the fact that opioid addiction is often created via legal means (prescribing opiate-based medications).
one point that those who want to ban drugs (instead of looking at addiction as the issue) couldn't really respond to was how we love to hand out amphetamine-based stimulants like candy (primarily to treat ADD/ADHD) while banning methamphetamine. seeing this article made me welcome hearing defenses of this drug abuse in another sphere.
ETA: i know this was posted a few years ago today but it was re-posted today on psychology today's facebook and it's a new era for drug policy compared to 2013
This post was edited on 7/9/15 at 8:41 am
22
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:36 am to SlowFlowPro
Link? I would like to read the whole article.
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:38 am to MSTiger33
damnit. this is the second time in a week i've made that error
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:39 am to SlowFlowPro
the French probably have GAYDHD instead
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this is the second time in a week i've made that error
Welcome to the senior citizen syndrome.
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:42 am to SlowFlowPro
I lived with a middle class French family in Paris in 10th grade as a part of an exchange program. I went to their high school and did everything the kids in the family did. This article is spot on.
They had VERY structured meal times and even meals. The portions were small, but it was enough. We ate an appetizer and no one got their next plate until everyone finished. And so on. Not just for dinner, but every meal. Even casual meals where the desserts were a single pudding cup per person, the spoon was laid on the table and everyone began eating at the same time, sitting straightforward at the dining room table.
Very, very structured lifestyle as children. We had 1 hour for homework, 1 hour for dinner, 1 hour for reading after dinner, etc.
School was very similar as well. It was set up kind of like Harry Potter, in that we didn’t play other schools in sports, but the school itself was split into teams (not 4, it was like 6 I believe). The teachers gave no fricks that I could barely understand them when they talked fast and held me to the same academic standards. It was brutal
.
Oh, and the two kids (15 year old male and 12 year old female) shared bath water in the morning before school. I, of course, pulled the plug and refilled for myself. I’m sure they thought I was a wasteful American, but I draw the line somewhere
They had VERY structured meal times and even meals. The portions were small, but it was enough. We ate an appetizer and no one got their next plate until everyone finished. And so on. Not just for dinner, but every meal. Even casual meals where the desserts were a single pudding cup per person, the spoon was laid on the table and everyone began eating at the same time, sitting straightforward at the dining room table.
Very, very structured lifestyle as children. We had 1 hour for homework, 1 hour for dinner, 1 hour for reading after dinner, etc.
School was very similar as well. It was set up kind of like Harry Potter, in that we didn’t play other schools in sports, but the school itself was split into teams (not 4, it was like 6 I believe). The teachers gave no fricks that I could barely understand them when they talked fast and held me to the same academic standards. It was brutal
. Oh, and the two kids (15 year old male and 12 year old female) shared bath water in the morning before school. I, of course, pulled the plug and refilled for myself. I’m sure they thought I was a wasteful American, but I draw the line somewhere
This post was edited on 7/9/15 at 8:46 am
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:42 am to SlowFlowPro
pharmaceutical companies run the country. if we made all drugs legal, they wouldn't get their money. they pay the lobbyists hundreds of millions of dollars to ensure things remain the way they are.
completely agree with the article too, but I think the main reason Adderall and drugs in general are so over prescribed here is the doctors getting kick backs from drug companies for prescribing their drugs.
Money controls everything
completely agree with the article too, but I think the main reason Adderall and drugs in general are so over prescribed here is the doctors getting kick backs from drug companies for prescribing their drugs.
Money controls everything
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:44 am to chickman1313
quote:
pharmaceutical companies run the country. if we made all drugs legal, they wouldn't get their money. they pay the lobbyists hundreds of millions of dollars to ensure things remain the way they are.
completely agree with the article too, but I think the main reason Adderall and drugs in general are so over prescribed here is the doctors getting kick backs from drug companies for prescribing their drugs.
Money controls everything
If parents didn't send their kids to the doctor for behavioral problems, they wouldn't have patients to prescribe medicine to. The parents are to blame more than anyone IMO.
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:46 am to SlowFlowPro
The tendency to diagnose a mental illness is directly tied to the ability to "treat" said illness
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:46 am to TheCaterpillar
i'd imagine structured eating and minimal snacking also is a major issue for their lack of obesity. snacking is terrible, esp in our system today with the snacks offered
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:47 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
If parents didn't send their kids to the doctor for behavioral problems, they wouldn't have patients to prescribe medicine to. The parents are to blame more than anyone IMO.
I agree they are definitely at fault as well, its just this whole culture we've developed of being medicated, everyone things drugs are the answer.
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:48 am to chickman1313
quote:
but I think the main reason Adderall and drugs in general are so over prescribed here is the doctors getting kick backs from drug companies for prescribing their drugs.
Obviously. They don't have that problem in France because the doctors don't want to make that much money and get into the upper tax bracket and lose like 75% of their earnings.
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:50 am to SlowFlowPro
It's a fairly easy process. Provide your kids with structure and they will thrive. It's so damn frustrating to see kids running their parents lives. The biggest excuse I get is, well it's easier this way or wait until your kids are older and you'll understand. frick that. I teach 14 special needs children all day except for when they go to PE. The more out of control they are behavior wise when they get to me; the more structure I provide for them. The trick is teaching the parents to do the same at home. More often than not, I help get my kids OFF their ADHD meds before going to high school. It's all about conditioning the mind to be in control of impulse.
This post was edited on 7/9/15 at 8:51 am
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:50 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'd imagine structured eating and minimal snacking also is a major issue for their lack of obesity. snacking is terrible, esp in our system today with the snacks offered
That's as big as anything. Their snacks are much healthier.
Also, 5 small meals instead of 3 big meals speeds up your metabolism.
But the key element for them is portion control. They literally don't even have the big plates (like physical plates) that Americans do. Its a completely different mindset. Soft drinks are even smaller in machines (and have fruit drink options).
I would scarf my food down and still be hungry, but then got into an eating rhythm of pacing myself and giving my body time to get full before the next course. They'll have 5 or 6 courses sometimes at dinner that are all very small.
This post was edited on 7/9/15 at 8:51 am
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:50 am to el Gaucho
quote:
the French probably have GAYDHD instead
I'm really upset that I laughed at this
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:51 am to SlowFlowPro
I have heard this comparison between European handling of ADD/ADHD symptoms in children vs. how we handle in the States. I am in agreement with the European style.
I think (just my opinion from having nieces and nephews) one reason so many kids get ADD/ADHD is too much TV at a young age. Parents of 1-3 year olds don't have time to or want to give their babies all the attention they require, so they throw them in front of the tv. This entertains them and keeps them quiet. So from a very young age children are given constant stimulus. They never learn to cope with not being entertained. As these kids get older they get bored very easily from lack of stimulus.
Im not saying tv is bad as a whole, but the amount of tv watched by young children needs to significantly decrease. let them find other forms of entertainment even if it is as simple as a coloring book or puzzle. At least those will develop skills than can be used in the future.
As for the prescription argument, I also agree that this needs to stop. I took Adderall in college to help study, like the majority of students, and the ease in which I got it was disturbing. I walked into a doctors office where I had never been, told them I was in engineering that was having trouble focusing due to the large amount of work required in my major. Lady prescribed me Adderall immediately. As time progressed my dosages got larger. Yes, I did benefit from the prescription, but it was out of sheer laziness that it was required, not a true medical need.
My father has also taken Xanax and other forms of anti-anxiety medication as far back as I can remember. Now he is basically fried from all the pills. Though my parents and older generation of family will never admit it, he is completely addicted and dependent on the medication. Long term use has ruined any natural ability he had to fight the anxiety and just deal with it internally. I always tell them he should stop taking the pills and start using TCH, but that's illegal. This close minded approach is a problem that most of America refuses to acknowledge. Of course, the huge pill corporations are paying everyone to keep this trend going.
TL;DR - your mom is a slut
I think (just my opinion from having nieces and nephews) one reason so many kids get ADD/ADHD is too much TV at a young age. Parents of 1-3 year olds don't have time to or want to give their babies all the attention they require, so they throw them in front of the tv. This entertains them and keeps them quiet. So from a very young age children are given constant stimulus. They never learn to cope with not being entertained. As these kids get older they get bored very easily from lack of stimulus.
Im not saying tv is bad as a whole, but the amount of tv watched by young children needs to significantly decrease. let them find other forms of entertainment even if it is as simple as a coloring book or puzzle. At least those will develop skills than can be used in the future.
As for the prescription argument, I also agree that this needs to stop. I took Adderall in college to help study, like the majority of students, and the ease in which I got it was disturbing. I walked into a doctors office where I had never been, told them I was in engineering that was having trouble focusing due to the large amount of work required in my major. Lady prescribed me Adderall immediately. As time progressed my dosages got larger. Yes, I did benefit from the prescription, but it was out of sheer laziness that it was required, not a true medical need.
My father has also taken Xanax and other forms of anti-anxiety medication as far back as I can remember. Now he is basically fried from all the pills. Though my parents and older generation of family will never admit it, he is completely addicted and dependent on the medication. Long term use has ruined any natural ability he had to fight the anxiety and just deal with it internally. I always tell them he should stop taking the pills and start using TCH, but that's illegal. This close minded approach is a problem that most of America refuses to acknowledge. Of course, the huge pill corporations are paying everyone to keep this trend going.
TL;DR - your mom is a slut
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:51 am to SlowFlowPro
TIL I learned that I raise my daughter like the French
Our daughter is on a very tightly kept schedule, which is great at times because she does so well with it, but it can also feel like we are a prisoner to her schedule sometimes
Our daughter is on a very tightly kept schedule, which is great at times because she does so well with it, but it can also feel like we are a prisoner to her schedule sometimes
This post was edited on 7/9/15 at 8:52 am
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:52 am to SlowFlowPro
So French children are taught to be submissive?
Explains a lot
Explains a lot
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:54 am to Salmon
quote:
but it can also feel like we are a prisoner to her schedule sometimes
Right, that has to be expected, but she will not live at home forever. When she is off on her own, it will be worth it and you and Mrs. Salmon can walk around naked drinking beer and forgetting to cook dinner.
Posted on 7/9/15 at 8:54 am to SlowFlowPro
Keep in mind France has 65 million people. We have 350 million with illegal Mexicans. So it stands to reason our problems would be 5 times as worse. Scale is very important and you need to compare apples to apples.
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