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Thoughts on where we've been and where we need to go.

Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:23 pm
Posted by bonethug0108
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
12690 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:23 pm
Watching the game made me realize we are repeating some of the same exact mistakes we made last year.

1) We aren't keeping contain on the QB. This looked like and EXACT copy of the opening game last year against the Falcons where the ends (Jordan and Galette last year and Jordan and Kikaha this year) tried to be heroes and make plays by themselves instead of working as a team.

They either rushed outside and tried to do an inside move giving Palmer HUGE space to run to the sideline to extend plays (and no DB can cover that long that often), or they rushed inside an couldn't get off the block to get back outside giving Palmer HUGE space to run to the sideline to extend the play.

STOP TRYING TO GET THE SACK YOURSELF AND STAY IN YOUR frickING RUSH LANES. Palmer actually looked pedestrian when we kept him in the pocket.

This also eliminated the push up the middle, taking Hicks completely out of the game.

2) We are looking for the deep ball first almost every play, and when we aren't it's usually a screen. That lets the defense play the deep ball first and when Brees starts reading down the receivers are already stopped and the defenders already running back up to them. How many plays did we see where Brees waited 3-4 seconds and then took the short route but the defender was on top of the receiver?

This is the same exact issue Brees had last year, only he doesn't have Graham to chuck it up to in double or triple coverage (which is a good thing imo once we actually fix the read progression).

3) Payton should quit calling plays. He looked bad in 2013, last year, and is starting off bad this year. Against lesser teams we are getting away with the bad play calling but against teams with more legit defenses or secondaries it's killing us. Let Carmichael do it. He did well enough in 2009 when he took over and again in 2012. I think he even called plays in the great 2011 season.

In particular Payton calls too many screens when he sees one or two work, he tries to force plays to certain guys with certain play calls, we way too often go pass on first and run on second (do we think teams have not caught on to this?), and we refuse to run the ball in short yardage.

New issues I saw:

1) We should not play zone. We got scorched on the first two drives playing way too much zone. When we went to predominantly man defense we played much better. Looks like we already recognized the issue and are fixing it.

2) We lack speed on offense. We looked for the deep ball way too often with only one deep threat. When Spiller comes back it will help spread the defense horizontally and somewhat vertically, but we really need to bring Joe back to help take the top off. Just Cooks is not going to cut it. We had Stills last year who could do it but he's gone.

3) We need to teach better technique to the DBs. Browner I get because that's his game, but these young DBs should not be copying his style.

And the good:

Ingram and Robinson can both be legit pass catchers. Add in Spiller and you have 3 backs that could be in any down.

The line looks miles better. The run blocking was spotty but we were too predictable with our calls and it looked like they knew run or pass every play. Pass blocking was miles better. Brees had all day on most of the snaps but was reading the progressions wrong (you have to adjust at some point).

Anthony and Kikaha are going to be super legit. Get one more LB and we will have a very good corp.

Jordan played well minus trying to force things too much and getting out of his lanes letting Palmer escape.

Snead NEEDS to get way more snaps. 18 (14 on routes) is not enough.

Kicker looks good so far. May be legit.
Posted by LSUZombie
A Cemetery Near You
Member since Apr 2008
28905 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:29 pm to
I think we need to stay the course and continue to draft well and not look to throw heaps of money at free agents.

This past offseason was the first offseason in a while were the Saints looked to be making smart decisions for the future of their club, and not just for the now.
Posted by Hoodoo Man
Sunshine Pumping most days.
Member since Oct 2011
31637 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

1) We should not play zone. We got scorched on the first two drives playing way too much zone. When we went to predominantly man defense we played much better. Looks like we already recognized the issue and are fixing it.

I'm still unsure why the DB's sometimes give their receivers a cushion.
Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
112671 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:30 pm to
Completely agree on Cam and Pineapple Express

Too many times Kikaha was running around like a mad man and would get easily picked up by a back or a free guard. It's great that he has a motor but he needs to be smarter about how he rushes.
Posted by whodatfan
Member since Mar 2008
21332 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:31 pm to
I agree with all of this. I only read it because I respect you as a poster.
Posted by bonethug0108
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
12690 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 3:26 pm to
Thanks.

Yeah didn't really exactly how long it was until I posted it.

At LsuZombie I was more talking on the field stuff and coaching. I do think what we did this offseason was a good step though. We are just too snake bit to keep signing big money FAs.

I do want to say I noticed Anthony played every snap so he is the starting Mike. Hawthorne and Humber both had about 25ish snaps and neither looked too good (Humber was getting killed on run plays not staying in his lane and Hawthorne should not be in coverage; Ellerbe can thankfully do both so just a matter of him getting healthy).

Edit:
Yeah Hoodoo those soft zones were killing me. 14 points on first two drives playing off zone and only 10 until that last play the rest of the game playing mostly man. Like I said it looks to be corrected for the most part but definitely something I'm watching.
This post was edited on 9/14/15 at 6:00 pm
Posted by Laaz2750
Los Angeles
Member since Aug 2008
8381 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 4:32 pm to
Good post Bonethug thanks. I was saying to my Dad during the game that it really looks like the exact same problems we had last year spilled over into this one.

HOWEVER, and this is what I think you're getting at... the underlying causes are different and seem a lot more fixable this year than they did last year.
Posted by bonethug0108
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
12690 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 5:57 pm to
For some of the problems the causes are different, or partly so. I think the biggest one that's the same is Payton's play calling. He talks about doing certain things but in the heat of the moment he doesn't follow through. And he's been making mistakes at times with clock management/situational football and always has trouble getting the call in quick enough.

Jordan's responsibilities are different so maybe when he settles in he'll be better with it, but he did have the same issue of losing outside contain on the qb by doing that stuff spin more inside. I mean it was literally exactly like the first game against the Falcon's last year. Same contain. Same spin move. Same result. Kikaha is a rookie and he'll press at times but he'll settle in soon enough. He started training camp and preseason the same way.

And I think some blame has to be laid on Dennis Allen as he has been working with the secondary and their technique broke down at times. A lot of rookies though so it isn't like PRob and White who should have known better. I'll be patient and see if that starts improving.
Posted by partywiththelombardi
Member since May 2012
11590 posts
Posted on 9/14/15 at 6:27 pm to
quote:

I'm still unsure why the DB's sometimes give their receivers a cushion.


Cushion is okay if used properly and in moderation. We just do not do either.

On 3rd and 10 our CB's start at the first down marker and then backpedal when the ball is snapped. It is one of the dumbest things you can possibly do.

You work your tail off to force a 3rd and long and then just gift wrap them a fresh set of downs.

I get forcing an underneath throw...that makes sense.

It does not make sense to give a throw underneath that allows the receiver to build up full speed, cross the marker without being immediately met upon completing the pass, and now forcing your CB into having to make an open field tackle to prevent a bigger play.

A cushion should give you just enough space to not be beat off the line no matter how explosive a receiver may be.

A 5-6 yard cushion is pretty standard and makes sense if you play it straight up off the snap.

A 10 yard cushion makes sense if you attack the receiver once the ball is in play and try to anticipate the throw.

A 10 yard cushion that starts off with a back pedal creating a 13-15 yard window is just stupid. That similar strategy is what got us annihilated against Atl in the air a year ago.

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