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Message
So does everyone agree if Adams drops to 11, Saints don't pass on him?
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:23 am
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:23 am
Even if we still want Vaccaro here long term? Or would this cause Saints to change their long term plans with regards to KV?
I don't think Adams will drop but he's one of the players i see having some sort of slimish chance that falls a few spots down.
I don't think Adams will drop but he's one of the players i see having some sort of slimish chance that falls a few spots down.
8
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:34 am to Chad504boy
If Adams is there at #11 I'd moonwalk up to the podium with his name on the card.
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:36 am to Chad504boy
The question would be......
Does a starting 3 safety set of Bell, Vaccaro and Adams give us what we need as a Base Defense ?
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:37 am to Chad504boy
If you think Jamal Adams falls out the top 5, you need to make an appointment with a doctor immediately. He could easily go 2 to the 49ers and won't fall past Tennessee unless they like Lattimore more than him, which case he goes next to the Jets.
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:37 am to Chad504boy
I get bombed every time I post this, but..
I really like Adams and I think he is probably the 2nd best player in this draft, but I think he is too slow to play FS. He can't be a single high. He has to be a box safety. And we already have (IMO) a really, really good box safety in KV. I do prescribe to the BPA mentality, but only at a need and I just don't see box safety as a need with KV, Harris and Bush on the roster.
Malik Hooker is a much, much better fit for our needs.
I really like Adams and I think he is probably the 2nd best player in this draft, but I think he is too slow to play FS. He can't be a single high. He has to be a box safety. And we already have (IMO) a really, really good box safety in KV. I do prescribe to the BPA mentality, but only at a need and I just don't see box safety as a need with KV, Harris and Bush on the roster.
Malik Hooker is a much, much better fit for our needs.
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:39 am to Rand AlThor
"I do prescribe to the BPA mentality, but only at a need"
You just said you subscribe to both of the two opposite draft strategies. lol
You just said you subscribe to both of the two opposite draft strategies. lol
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:41 am to Rand AlThor
sure, why not, after all we don't need a pass rushing DE at all so lets completely ignore that need.
it doesn't matter how many GOAT players you have in coverage if opposing QBs can sit in the pocket for 5,6 or sometimes even 8 seconds, someone will always come open with that much time no matter how great your DBs are
it doesn't matter how many GOAT players you have in coverage if opposing QBs can sit in the pocket for 5,6 or sometimes even 8 seconds, someone will always come open with that much time no matter how great your DBs are
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:41 am to Rand AlThor
quote:
Malik Hooker is a much, much better fit for our needs.
Completely agree. With Hooker falling in some mock drafts I wonder if he is in serious consideration for us at 11. Then wait and draft a pass rusher at 32
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:47 am to Rand AlThor
quote:
Malik Hooker is a much, much better fit for our needs.
of course, but my assumption is hooker is gone, adams falls in this scenario.
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:53 am to metryboy
quote:
You just said you subscribe to both of the two opposite draft strategies. lol
Not really. Some teams go BPA no matter what, some teams go at their need no matter what, I believe in a strong mix of the two. If DE is our greatest need, and RB is our 4th greatest need but a super high graded RB is available and no highly graded DE is available, I'd rather take the RB. A pure-need drafting team would take a lower graded DE.
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:58 am to Rand AlThor
also think the term "needs" is pretty futile. Yes this year we need an edge rusher... other than that, there's short term needs/ long term needs. Contracts are fluid and can change at any moment. so are injuries.
There's two arguments to be made for each of these positions:
QB
RB
CB
S
RT
TE
OLB
There's two arguments to be made for each of these positions:
QB
RB
CB
S
RT
TE
OLB
Posted on 4/4/17 at 11:59 am to keakar
quote:
sure, why not, after all we don't need a pass rushing DE at all so lets completely ignore that need.
it doesn't matter how many GOAT players you have in coverage if opposing QBs can sit in the pocket for 5,6 or sometimes even 8 seconds, someone will always come open with that much time no matter how great your DBs are
I agree, but this thread was about a hypothetical situation where a top player falls. Hooker and Adams are elite, blue-chip prospects. There is only one blue-chip pass rusher in this draft and he is going #1 overall. I would argue there aren't even any 2nd-tier pass rushers available, maybe Thomas. Any DE we take at 11 will be a reach. We can get a much better value at 32: Harris, Watt, Takk, maybe even Taco. Or at 42 we could get Tim Williams or Demarcus Walker.
Posted on 4/4/17 at 1:24 pm to Chad504boy
Not sure. If he falls all the way to 11, odds are there are injury concerns or off the field issues. Otherwise, he is not falling that far.
Posted on 4/4/17 at 1:35 pm to NOSHAU
I get this is just a fantasy "what if" question being asked, but unless the question also states all 1st round DE are gone, I don't see any other player you would seriously consider if you want to get to, and then win in the playoffs
no matter how good hooker or adams is, they aren't going to give us the impact DE QB pressure we need, and without that pressure, we aren't holding opposing teams to less then 30 points a game, or winning more then 7-9 or 8-8 games again and drew says see ya later.
now if you think we don't need a DE at #11 then you have given up trying to win games and are just looking to be able to say "we really had some very entertaining games" like jim mora said when asked if he was satisfied not making the playoffs every year.
either you want to address our "dire" needs to compete or you don't, that's the reality of where we are. I get it if you speculate with #32 or #42 picks but not with #11
now all that said, yes if adams is there I still take Barnett over him all day long, now if there isn't a single top 1st round caliber DE at #11 then yes, in that situation its BPA
no matter how good hooker or adams is, they aren't going to give us the impact DE QB pressure we need, and without that pressure, we aren't holding opposing teams to less then 30 points a game, or winning more then 7-9 or 8-8 games again and drew says see ya later.
now if you think we don't need a DE at #11 then you have given up trying to win games and are just looking to be able to say "we really had some very entertaining games" like jim mora said when asked if he was satisfied not making the playoffs every year.
either you want to address our "dire" needs to compete or you don't, that's the reality of where we are. I get it if you speculate with #32 or #42 picks but not with #11
now all that said, yes if adams is there I still take Barnett over him all day long, now if there isn't a single top 1st round caliber DE at #11 then yes, in that situation its BPA
This post was edited on 4/4/17 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 4/4/17 at 1:45 pm to Rand AlThor
quote:
I get bombed every time I post this, but..
You get bombed because this page is full of morons.
quote:
I really like Adams and I think he is probably the 2nd best player in this draft, but I think he is too slow to play FS. He can't be a single high. He has to be a box safety. And we already have (IMO) a really, really good box safety in KV. I do prescribe to the BPA mentality, but only at a need and I just don't see box safety as a need with KV, Harris and Bush on the roster.
Malik Hooker is a much, much better fit for our needs.
Agree 100%
It would actually make way more sense to draft a DR at 11 then wait and ge5 Obi-Wan at 32. JMO
This post was edited on 4/4/17 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 4/4/17 at 1:49 pm to keakar
So you're saying that if we don't think the Saints will take a DE just for the sake of drafting a DE, then we don't want to see the team win. What will it say about the Front Office if they don't believe the value is there and decide to take a position other than DE? Should we just give up on the season because it did not go the way you wanted?
Posted on 4/4/17 at 2:06 pm to Weekend Warrior79
quote:
So you're saying that if we don't think the Saints will take a DE just for the sake of drafting a DE, then we don't want to see the team win. What will it say about the Front Office if they don't believe the value is there and decide to take a position other than DE? Should we just give up on the season because it did not go the way you wanted
Beat me to it. So if FO doesn't agree with a bunch of blowhard pundits and amateur prognosticators that the available DEs aren't worthy of 11, and the fans are ok with that then we don't truly want to win.
What walter fricking football has as a " first rd DE" could be graded as a 2nd or 3rd rounder by half the personnel departments in the league. As more and more of these clowns get a megaphone to prognosticate, you have more and more fans and armchair gms asking why the draft is so different from the endless barrage of mock drafts of the last month . This board is gonna flip it's shite if we don't take Barnett just like it did Jarvis Jones.
This post was edited on 4/4/17 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 4/4/17 at 4:37 pm to St Augustine
I'm fine if we don't take Barnett at 11. Don't reach for need if better players are available. Plenty of DE/Edge rush guys to be had at 32 or later rounds.
Taco Charlton
Charles Harris
T.J. Watt
Demarcus Walker
Jordan Willis
Takk McKinley
Tanoh Kpassgnoh (sp?)
Derek Rivers
Terrell Bashem
In my opinion I think if Cook or Fournett are on the board and none of the elite defenders then they should be considered there as well. These are two guys you can build an offense around and could make the post Brees transition a little less painful. The odds of finding another all pro type replacement immediately are slim and this is true for most teams that have had to replace legends at QB.
Taco Charlton
Charles Harris
T.J. Watt
Demarcus Walker
Jordan Willis
Takk McKinley
Tanoh Kpassgnoh (sp?)
Derek Rivers
Terrell Bashem
In my opinion I think if Cook or Fournett are on the board and none of the elite defenders then they should be considered there as well. These are two guys you can build an offense around and could make the post Brees transition a little less painful. The odds of finding another all pro type replacement immediately are slim and this is true for most teams that have had to replace legends at QB.
Posted on 4/4/17 at 5:51 pm to Northshore Saint
TLDR but it is written already...
I don't know if there is any total BPA or total need picking team. I think it is always a balance. Some just lean one way or another.
Examples of value over need-
2001
Ricky Williams had just had his second straight 1000 yard season. Deuce was too good to pass up at #23. He carried the ball 16 times his rookie year! That turned out okay. Traded Williams and got two 1sts and a 4th for him. Similarly Michael Thomas showing 1st Rd talent allowed us to turn Cooks into a draft asset.
2004
Charles Grant and Darren Howard were going into their second and fourth seasons respectively. They had 15 sacks and Howard was only in 8 games in 2003. DE was not a need. #18 they couldn't pass on Will Smith for value. 2004 Howard and Grant had 21.5 sacks. Smith only started 4 games but got 7.5 sacks. (Hard to imagine 29 sacks from just the DE position today!)They let Howard walk as a UFA (and he busted in Philly) but there was no fall off at DE.
Payton mentioned last week that drafting to your strength is not always a bad decision.
Vaccaro only has one more year then pay him big bucks. Is he THE guy you want there and commit to? If you see Adams as a big step up in quality/performance then he is a good take. Go with 3 safety sets or franchise Vaccaro and trade him for a 2nd or 3rd depending on this year's performance.
I don't know if there is any total BPA or total need picking team. I think it is always a balance. Some just lean one way or another.
Examples of value over need-
2001
Ricky Williams had just had his second straight 1000 yard season. Deuce was too good to pass up at #23. He carried the ball 16 times his rookie year! That turned out okay. Traded Williams and got two 1sts and a 4th for him. Similarly Michael Thomas showing 1st Rd talent allowed us to turn Cooks into a draft asset.
2004
Charles Grant and Darren Howard were going into their second and fourth seasons respectively. They had 15 sacks and Howard was only in 8 games in 2003. DE was not a need. #18 they couldn't pass on Will Smith for value. 2004 Howard and Grant had 21.5 sacks. Smith only started 4 games but got 7.5 sacks. (Hard to imagine 29 sacks from just the DE position today!)They let Howard walk as a UFA (and he busted in Philly) but there was no fall off at DE.
Payton mentioned last week that drafting to your strength is not always a bad decision.
Vaccaro only has one more year then pay him big bucks. Is he THE guy you want there and commit to? If you see Adams as a big step up in quality/performance then he is a good take. Go with 3 safety sets or franchise Vaccaro and trade him for a 2nd or 3rd depending on this year's performance.
Posted on 4/4/17 at 6:02 pm to St Augustine
quote:
This board is gonna flip it's shite if we don't take Barnett just like it did Jarvis Jones
Yeah its working that way. The FO may feel that between Kikaha, Ellerbe and Okafor a pass rush specialist is not as much a priority at 11 as many of us do.
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