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re: This season is a waste and this draft class is loaded with potential all stars.
Posted on 1/25/22 at 7:42 am to corndeaux
Posted on 1/25/22 at 7:42 am to corndeaux
quote:
Bronc on Pels Talk, know more about the health and wellness of players than Aaron Nelson and his team?
Are we really to believe that every time Willie puts BI and Jonas back into the game early in the fourth and pushes their minutes up at career highs that he is calling Nelson to get the thumbs up?
No, he sees leads slipping and realizes the only two players he has to draw from are BI and Jonas so it's push them to the limit or lose the lead.
quote:
He has averaged right at 34mpg as a Pel. He's at 34.5 this year.
Only becuase he has left games and been on some minutes restrictions coming back from injury. The 10ish games leading up to the achilles scare he was averaging almost 39 minutes per game. Ranked top 10 during that period. During the first injury he was at 37 minutes, again top ten, playing 6 games in less than 10 days and was getting physically beat up every night.
2
Posted on 1/25/22 at 9:38 am to Bronc
quote:There could be a 1 time even here or there, but there is very little chance a first year coach can overrule those kinds of things. Much in the way that Gentry had to play Zion in bursts, though I doubt that's how he would have done it if he had his choice.
Are we really to believe that every time Willie puts BI and Jonas back into the game early in the fourth and pushes their minutes up at career highs that he is calling Nelson to get the thumbs up?
There's been a lot of discussion in recent years about how coaches nowadays have as little control as they've ever had.
This post was edited on 1/25/22 at 9:51 am
Posted on 1/25/22 at 9:45 am to Bronc
quote:
really to believe that every time Willie puts BI and Jonas back into the game early in the fourth and pushes their minutes up at career highs that he is calling Nelson to get the thumbs up?
It's like you contrive the most absurd takes just so you can argue against them. No one said Green consults the training staff for in game subs.
I think it's safe to assume the training staff monitors player minutes/health and has regular conversations with coaching/FO about player health.
Is it worth monitoring when guys are playing upper 30s so often? Sure. I get your concern trolling here. Is there any evidence this training staff is asleep at the wheel? None that I have seen.
Posted on 1/25/22 at 9:50 am to shel311
I mean just looking at the minutes distribution post injury there is no doubt in my mind Willie is following advice of bringing back BI slowly, but it's also clear that he is putting BI and JV in a lot sooner than is clearly ideal or intended to win games when those post return periods are seemingly past.
What I don't think is true that if you asked Nelson he would be saying, yeah, go ahead and get BI back to playing 38mpg for BI before the achilles scare. Or that those 10ish games averaging 38mpg were an ideal minute load given the physicality they also came with.
What I am hoping, is that after a third injury this season Nelson and Co. might make the post return minutes load that seems to be around 31-34 the new norm the rest of the way.
What I don't think is true that if you asked Nelson he would be saying, yeah, go ahead and get BI back to playing 38mpg for BI before the achilles scare. Or that those 10ish games averaging 38mpg were an ideal minute load given the physicality they also came with.
What I am hoping, is that after a third injury this season Nelson and Co. might make the post return minutes load that seems to be around 31-34 the new norm the rest of the way.
Posted on 1/25/22 at 9:51 am to corndeaux
quote:It's obvious teams do this, but if we need to get direct, we know for a fact the Pelicans do this, as with Zion in year 1 where Gentry clearly didn't like doing it but had no choice.
I think it's safe to assume the training staff monitors player minutes/health and has regular conversations with coaching/FO about player health.
Posted on 1/27/22 at 3:43 am to bugafor6
But grab a dozen 2nd round picks …
Posted on 1/27/22 at 5:09 am to shel311
This is all foreign to me. If a guy is hurt, limited or susceptible to getting hurt it probably isn't a good idea to play him. If Ingram is sore and nursing something, then he shouldn't be playing. But saying he can play 30mpg, maybe 32 but certainly not more than 35.. that just sounds like conjecture. There is no way any trainer (especially ours) are that dialed in. There is no way they could formulate and target that exact time frame. Wouldn't it just be better to sit him a couple of games, than minute restrict him indefinitely?
Posted on 1/27/22 at 5:58 am to brmark70816
Conjecture suggests we don’t have information backing up the science behind load management and progressive fatigue raising the probability of injury.
But again, since you ignored it last time, tell me what we should do with BI? By your logic when he was playing 38mpg and began to have achilles pain, according to your expert opinion it had nothing to do with over exertion(even though we know achilles injuries very often can be the result of progressive body fatigue and impact) and that going back to playing BI 38 minutes was fine and he should just rub some dirt on it and continue?
Conjecture would apply to what you are doing. Forming an opinion(players can essentially play forever because Jordan did it in the era of slow pace) without actually having a strong basis in evidence behind it.
But please, tell me more about how Aaron Nelson knows less than BRmark from Baton Rouge about whether to ignore progressive fatigue concerns and rest guys like Jonas
But again, since you ignored it last time, tell me what we should do with BI? By your logic when he was playing 38mpg and began to have achilles pain, according to your expert opinion it had nothing to do with over exertion(even though we know achilles injuries very often can be the result of progressive body fatigue and impact) and that going back to playing BI 38 minutes was fine and he should just rub some dirt on it and continue?
Conjecture would apply to what you are doing. Forming an opinion(players can essentially play forever because Jordan did it in the era of slow pace) without actually having a strong basis in evidence behind it.
But please, tell me more about how Aaron Nelson knows less than BRmark from Baton Rouge about whether to ignore progressive fatigue concerns and rest guys like Jonas
Posted on 1/27/22 at 6:38 am to Bronc
I live in Georgia now, but regardless. If he is sore or if he is in danger of re-injury, then he should not be playing. It's that simple. It might be different if he was rehabbing or in recovery and there was a slow build up. But minutes restrictions are not tenable for the long term.
If it helps, I mostly agree with you. I just believe if you are healthy to play, you play as much as you can, that it benefits the team. Every player has their limits. I trust the coach and trainers to maximize that. I just don't believe in a redline, where he will break down if he passes it.
Let me just say this. If load management is real and something we should adhere to, then the league has got to massively overhaul everything. Less games, longer season, eliminate travel, shorter practices, everything.. if it is really that serious. A team cannot contend when you have to sit starters every tenth game or bumps/bruises are DNPs. That's just not going to work.
I know you want to lose right now, I get it. But with Val last game, we have a shot at a huge upset. We need every player available to be competitive. That is what I want. So we are going be at odds every game on this from here on out, until we are truly done for the season..
If it helps, I mostly agree with you. I just believe if you are healthy to play, you play as much as you can, that it benefits the team. Every player has their limits. I trust the coach and trainers to maximize that. I just don't believe in a redline, where he will break down if he passes it.
Let me just say this. If load management is real and something we should adhere to, then the league has got to massively overhaul everything. Less games, longer season, eliminate travel, shorter practices, everything.. if it is really that serious. A team cannot contend when you have to sit starters every tenth game or bumps/bruises are DNPs. That's just not going to work.
I know you want to lose right now, I get it. But with Val last game, we have a shot at a huge upset. We need every player available to be competitive. That is what I want. So we are going be at odds every game on this from here on out, until we are truly done for the season..
Posted on 1/27/22 at 6:41 am to Honest Man
1. Your list of draft eligible guys over rates them all.
2. the season isnt a waste.
JV for Adams and 2021.10 initially looks to be a pretty good move. tm3 for ziaire wms is not yet looking good now. ziaire starts if guys are out and is in rotation always. tm3 doesnt play much. we hoped tm3 was real deal.
maybe. maybe not. ziaire may be real deal.
10th for 17th. a bridge too far? if zion were playing the jv move looks much better because then pels are in 6th today if not better. so i guess that supports your shout.
zion no longer using mom's training table.
huge.
griffin will be judged (again) on this trade deadline.
2.5 games out of 10th today.
i think we get information whether griffin is going for playin on feb 10 deadline. i am hoping griffin knows that zion can play in a month and thus so tempting to try for playin.
2. the season isnt a waste.
JV for Adams and 2021.10 initially looks to be a pretty good move. tm3 for ziaire wms is not yet looking good now. ziaire starts if guys are out and is in rotation always. tm3 doesnt play much. we hoped tm3 was real deal.
maybe. maybe not. ziaire may be real deal.
10th for 17th. a bridge too far? if zion were playing the jv move looks much better because then pels are in 6th today if not better. so i guess that supports your shout.
zion no longer using mom's training table.
huge.
griffin will be judged (again) on this trade deadline.
2.5 games out of 10th today.
i think we get information whether griffin is going for playin on feb 10 deadline. i am hoping griffin knows that zion can play in a month and thus so tempting to try for playin.
This post was edited on 1/27/22 at 7:13 am
Posted on 1/27/22 at 6:44 am to brmark70816
quote:
If load management is real and something we should adhere to, then the league has got to massively overhaul everything. Less games, longer season, eliminate travel, shorter practices, everything.
The league has made a lot of changes to do exactly that since Silver took over. COVID happened right after they implemented some of these changes so you might have missed it, but preseason is shorter and it and the regular season start earlier. They did that to have fewer back to backs and give more days of rest around the All Star Break.
Before Griff/Nelson took over, one of the last things the Pels did to improve the health/training situation was give AD and Jrue wearable devices to monitor their rest and recovery. If they weren't getting enough they'd skip practice. Load management is definitely a thing.
This post was edited on 1/27/22 at 7:11 am
Posted on 1/27/22 at 8:22 am to brmark70816
quote:
Let me just say this. If load management is real and something we should adhere to, then the league has got to massively overhaul everything. Less games, longer season, eliminate travel, shorter practices, everything..
Sure, that would be ideal, but the NBA is a capitalistic enterprise. And the machine of capitalism is not well equipped to prioritize human well being and health above profits and human safety unless the former is harming the other....and even then corporate inertia and bureaucracy can still prevent that sort of large systemic change.
quote:
We need every player available to be competitive
Then you simply arent a good enough team.
attrition is the name of the game in the NBA and with Zion down, if you literally need your whole remaining roster to just be competitive, you simply dont have a good enough roster. The solution is not to run players into the ground to maximize this season, it's to recognize your reality and take a longer term view.
This post was edited on 1/27/22 at 8:30 am
Posted on 1/28/22 at 1:14 am to TigerinATL
Honestly it's hard to see load management during 2020-2021 season.
No back-to-backs but there were matches every 2 days.
Even Lebron, Kawhi etc had complained about the fact there were too many matches (it will be even worse with the play-in and probably the mid-season tournament).
NBA is business...I doubt it will change.
No back-to-backs but there were matches every 2 days.
Even Lebron, Kawhi etc had complained about the fact there were too many matches (it will be even worse with the play-in and probably the mid-season tournament).
NBA is business...I doubt it will change.
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