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Started By
Message
re: Should we be a tax team this season?
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:53 am to teke184
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:53 am to teke184
quote:
What players should get traded in order to get one better piece?
Griff has to be willing to consider trading guys who we think are essential. Before he was traded, this board's opinion was that Josh Hart was untradable, because he was too important to the team's identity and culture.
I do think that a Jarrett Allen trade makes sense.
1
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:30 am to MrBarry
Who would trade for Kira
He has no value
He has no value
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:58 am to shel311
quote:
To be fair, your initial reasoning that I replied to re: not trading was because we have too many quality players not playing much and not because there wasn't a player in mind to bring back. But also "too many quality players not playing much" is the exact reason a consolidation trade should be made. Seems counterintuitive to say that is a reason NOT to trade.
Ok
Give me your upgrade consolidation trade that makes us a contender.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:59 am to nicholastiger
You trade he for anything just get under the tax is what they are saying. He doesn't have a spot on this team.
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 7:00 am
Posted on 1/8/24 at 7:30 am to teke184
quote:
What players should get traded in order to get one better piece?
Kira/JV will likely be the primary salary combination, which means that we're likely limited to dealing for 5s
Posted on 1/8/24 at 8:03 am to SlowFlowPro
I don’t think Allen is actually available. He’s been balling. Wendell Carter jr is apparently available he’s injury prone but dealing JV for him should get you close to under the tax
Posted on 1/8/24 at 8:24 am to Pels_Yaz
If a true needle mover came available then I think we would. But I think it should only be done if the fit is right. We really don't need another ball dominant player unless we're actually upgrading Zion or BI. I think we should be setting ourselves up for the tax starting next year. In order to delay the repeater penalty start until next year. Personally I'd like to see us get another Nance type 4-5 (Isaiah Stewart if he didn't have a damn poison pill contract), flip some combo of pick/Kira/Naji/dyson for it ideally, and keep JV to resign for 12-15 per in the off-season. Then, once this season is done have them do a true evaluation as to what BI will cost long term and the viability of him and Zion together. The Pels are a good team right now, and could be a solid 2nd Rd or conference finals team with good playoff matchups I think. But we aren't beating the nuggets or healthy clippers in a 7 game series this year without a major upgrade, and I don't see one being available this year.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 8:39 am to cajun_tiger
quote:
If a true needle mover came available then I think we would. But I think it should only be done if the fit is right. We really don't need another ball dominant player unless we're actually upgrading Zion or BI. I think we should be setting ourselves up for the tax starting next year. In order to delay the repeater penalty start until next year. Personally I'd like to see us get another Nance type 4-5 (Isaiah Stewart if he didn't have a damn poison pill contract), flip some combo of pick/Kira/Naji/dyson for it ideally, and keep JV to resign for 12-15 per in the off-season. Then, once this season is done have them do a true evaluation as to what BI will cost long term and the viability of him and Zion together. The Pels are a good team right now, and could be a solid 2nd Rd or conference finals team with good playoff matchups I think. But we aren't beating the nuggets or healthy clippers in a 7 game series this year without a major upgrade, and I don't see one being available this year.
Agreed. You dont want to start the repeater if you dont have to. If we look like a contender in february and can add a big piece then sure.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:28 am to cajun_tiger
The team should absolutely be willing to pay the tax this year, though not with this exact roster.
With the injury histories of Nance and Zion, we should absolutely target another big man, even if it is just for the remainder of the season.
Jonas matches up really well against 4 of our potential playoff opponents in Denver, LAC, Houston, and Sacramento. I'm not sure there is an available starting center who would be a playoff upgrade (don't think Allen is really available).
But there are quite a few players that are available that could supplement Jonas and Larry. The new trade rules are really advantageous for those under the first apron. We can take in roughly 4 million more than we send out and stay under the apron.
Obviously 1 or more draft picks would be required as compensation, but there are many possibilities to add an impactful big simply using end of the bench salary. Some combination of Kira, EJ, and Cody could be
the required salary to bring back Carter, Olynyk, Gafford, Claxton, Zach Collins, or many others.
When healthy we don't have many minutes and some might be only a half season rental, but it shouldn't stop us from going after a player that could easily be the difference in a playoff series. And neither should the luxury tax.
With the injury histories of Nance and Zion, we should absolutely target another big man, even if it is just for the remainder of the season.
Jonas matches up really well against 4 of our potential playoff opponents in Denver, LAC, Houston, and Sacramento. I'm not sure there is an available starting center who would be a playoff upgrade (don't think Allen is really available).
But there are quite a few players that are available that could supplement Jonas and Larry. The new trade rules are really advantageous for those under the first apron. We can take in roughly 4 million more than we send out and stay under the apron.
Obviously 1 or more draft picks would be required as compensation, but there are many possibilities to add an impactful big simply using end of the bench salary. Some combination of Kira, EJ, and Cody could be
the required salary to bring back Carter, Olynyk, Gafford, Claxton, Zach Collins, or many others.
When healthy we don't have many minutes and some might be only a half season rental, but it shouldn't stop us from going after a player that could easily be the difference in a playoff series. And neither should the luxury tax.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 9:28 am to cajun_tiger
There's no reason to go into the tax for an upgraded 5, b/c saying it's an upgrade is debateable. Jarrett Allen doesn't make us contender ready better than JV, as long as Larry is healthy.
If you want to upgrade Herb, ok. But that's as simple as inserting Trey into the starting lineup since so many of you want to annoint him a max player. And you already have 3 20ppg guys in your starting lineup. having 3 20ppg players on a team is a rare feat that has only happend a handful of times in nba history. You can't go add a 4th 20ppg guy to this team and expect it to make us better. Role players play a big role on championship teams, and having a guy like Herb is important.
If you want to upgrade CJ, ok. The dude is just shooting 45% from 3 this year on 8 attempts a game, and 20/5/4, and is the thrid option on the team.
It's quite obvious that this team is stacked 3-12. They have everything they need to compete for a championship.
It's the #1 guy and the #2 guy that will determine if we are a contender or not, and there's no way of knowing that until we see them both perform in the playoffs, and that is why it would be silly to do anything right now b/c we dont' actually know what we need to do b/c we haven't seen playoff basketball from this core yet.
and no i dont' care if we are a tax team or not, but i understand the consequences of it. We are going to have to be one to win a championship more likely than not. But we aren't winning a championship this year, and there's simply no reason to start being a tax team this year b/c of the consequences of the repeater fees later on, especially when it's so easy to not be one and still be a legit team.
I've yet to see a proposed trade that makes us a tax team that will without a doubt make us a contender this year. We have all the assets necessary to make a trade for literally anyone in the league.
If you want to upgrade Herb, ok. But that's as simple as inserting Trey into the starting lineup since so many of you want to annoint him a max player. And you already have 3 20ppg guys in your starting lineup. having 3 20ppg players on a team is a rare feat that has only happend a handful of times in nba history. You can't go add a 4th 20ppg guy to this team and expect it to make us better. Role players play a big role on championship teams, and having a guy like Herb is important.
If you want to upgrade CJ, ok. The dude is just shooting 45% from 3 this year on 8 attempts a game, and 20/5/4, and is the thrid option on the team.
It's quite obvious that this team is stacked 3-12. They have everything they need to compete for a championship.
It's the #1 guy and the #2 guy that will determine if we are a contender or not, and there's no way of knowing that until we see them both perform in the playoffs, and that is why it would be silly to do anything right now b/c we dont' actually know what we need to do b/c we haven't seen playoff basketball from this core yet.
and no i dont' care if we are a tax team or not, but i understand the consequences of it. We are going to have to be one to win a championship more likely than not. But we aren't winning a championship this year, and there's simply no reason to start being a tax team this year b/c of the consequences of the repeater fees later on, especially when it's so easy to not be one and still be a legit team.
I've yet to see a proposed trade that makes us a tax team that will without a doubt make us a contender this year. We have all the assets necessary to make a trade for literally anyone in the league.
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 9:29 am
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:02 am to teke184
quote:Some combo of Herb/Jose/Naji/Dyson/Hawkins + picks.
What players should get traded in order to get one better piece?
Kira is a given. Outside of that, who? Naji? Dyson? EJ?
I'd prefer to keep Herb and Jose, buteven some combo of DysonNaji/Hawkins/picks could upgrade and make this team better right now.
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 10:03 am
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:05 am to mhasen1
It has to be for the right guy and the opportunity has to be there for a move. To do it just to do is not the way to go. We've seen enough teams in the past and present who made moves only to destroy whatever window they had because it was not a well thought out move. But it also has to be a guy out there who would be an absolute upgrade and a perfect fit. And he's out there and available for the taking then go all in.
We're in this weird state where we are unproven as a group even though this is year 5 but we are good enough to make some noise but probably not good enough to be a serious contending team.
We're in this weird state where we are unproven as a group even though this is year 5 but we are good enough to make some noise but probably not good enough to be a serious contending team.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:05 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:Bingo. We can say Herb/Jose/Dyson are untouchable but quite simply, they're not.
Griff has to be willing to consider trading guys who we think are essential.
Only superstars or potential stars are untouchable. Everyone else can and should be available for the right dudes.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:07 am to MrBarry
quote:I don't know who is available, none of us know the full extent of available players teams will peek around to see if a trade is there.
Give me your upgrade consolidation trade that makes us a contender.
But again, having too many quality players not playing is the exact reason we need to look for a trade, not the reason to not trade.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:36 am to shel311
quote:
I don't know who is available, none of us know the full extent of available players teams will peek around to see if a trade is there.
We have enough assets to get anyone.
quote:
But again, having too many quality players not playing is the exact reason we need to look for a trade, not the reason to not trade.
The point i'm making about that, and that i dont' think you've accepted, is that we have a championship contending role player roster from 3-12. We could use another backup big, and you could say it would be better to have a veteran scorer off the bench instead of someone like Hawkins.
But if we can't be a contender, it's not b/c of the role players. It's b/c of BI and Zion. Either they are good enough as a 1/2 combo or they or not. We have yet to get to see if they are capable of that or not.
I"m not saying we shouldnt' try to get better, just that we dont' really know what really needs to get better just yet.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:42 am to Pels_Yaz
I believe there should be a hard cap and no one should be able to exceed it.
If you do pay the tax and do not had extraordinary results, then it's an organizational failure. I don't think it's worth the cost or the risk (if I was a GM). The only way I'd pay is as a defending champion or a serious contender (conference champion or finalist) trying to hold onto an emerging core.
I would not pay the tax..
If you do pay the tax and do not had extraordinary results, then it's an organizational failure. I don't think it's worth the cost or the risk (if I was a GM). The only way I'd pay is as a defending champion or a serious contender (conference champion or finalist) trying to hold onto an emerging core.
I would not pay the tax..
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:46 am to MrBarry
quote:
I"m not saying we shouldnt' try to get better, just that we dont' really know what really needs to get better just yet.
I’d contend that the Pels have ample evidence. Val hasn’t been playable in the crunch against contenders and Nance isn’t effective unless he’s near 100% which he hasn’t been consistently.
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