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Rebuild and Retain: New Orleans Pelicans
Posted on 12/3/15 at 9:12 am
Posted on 12/3/15 at 9:12 am
From Upside and Motor on the state of the Pellies and what they can do moving forward.
Pretty fair summation of where they stand. They made a win sooner play and it just hasn't worked out. Interesting to wonder if they just bet at the wrong time. They went with a top heavy team as the league seems to be moving towards deeper and deeper rosters.
They then look at the assets a team has, defining assets as rookie contracts. For the Pels, this is only Davis. There is a nice breakdown of Davis w/ video. They end with this:
Still time to turn things around. But many Pels fans thought they still needed to make at least one more big move, even if everything had gone well to start the year. These results are making it hard to deny that there a major structural flaws with just about everything they are doing on and off the court.
quote:
The Pelicans represent the teams whose expectations and impatience have landed them in this seemingly never ending cycle. Dell Demps traded away what ended up being two lottery picks for Jrue Holiday, gave a long term deal to Tyreke Evans and traded another first round pick for Omer Asik. Those players are fine, but New Orleans hasn’t finished any higher than the 8th seed in the playoffs with this core group around superstar Anthony Davis. They may have added talent in the short term, but by trading away first round picks, they’ve sacrificed depth and long-term ceiling.
quote:
They could’ve used that depth for this season, too. The Pelicans have become the turn that is plagued by the injury bug, with Holiday, Davis, Asik, Evans and other key rotation players all missing time. Their inability to put competent NBA bodies on the floor each night has turned a team with 50 win hopes into a 4-13 underachiever with the fourth worst point differential in the league.
Pretty fair summation of where they stand. They made a win sooner play and it just hasn't worked out. Interesting to wonder if they just bet at the wrong time. They went with a top heavy team as the league seems to be moving towards deeper and deeper rosters.
They then look at the assets a team has, defining assets as rookie contracts. For the Pels, this is only Davis. There is a nice breakdown of Davis w/ video. They end with this:
quote:
Is it now or never for this Pelicans core?
The answer to this question looks more and more like “yes” every day, as the losses pile up and the bodies continue to fall to the inactive list. Davis is a once in a lifetime type player, but even he can’t win games by himself if the Pelicans are fielding a roster made up of fringe NBA guys and players who were out of the league just a year ago.
Still time to turn things around. But many Pels fans thought they still needed to make at least one more big move, even if everything had gone well to start the year. These results are making it hard to deny that there a major structural flaws with just about everything they are doing on and off the court.
This post was edited on 12/3/15 at 9:13 am
6
Posted on 12/3/15 at 9:24 am to corndeaux
I'll reiterate what I've been saying for 2.5 years. Demps needs to go sooner than later.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 9:42 am to corndeaux
I don't have a problem with the Jrue trade. Hindsight sucks, but Jrue is a good player
Evans was a great sign
Asik
Evans was a great sign
Asik
Posted on 12/3/15 at 9:49 am to TigerBait1127
Yeah. It's not like these were Kahn level moves at the time.
I think it was fair to question the wisdom of moving for BOTH Holiday and Evans, while still holding onto Gordon as they happened. But it was just as easy to argue for it at the time.
Demps made a bet. It just hasnt worked. It happens in this business. But its time to think about how to go forward. The worst thing they could do would be Ferry in Cleveland type moves.
I think it was fair to question the wisdom of moving for BOTH Holiday and Evans, while still holding onto Gordon as they happened. But it was just as easy to argue for it at the time.
Demps made a bet. It just hasnt worked. It happens in this business. But its time to think about how to go forward. The worst thing they could do would be Ferry in Cleveland type moves.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 9:53 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
I don't have a problem with the Jrue trade. Hindsight sucks, but Jrue is a good player
Evans was a great sign
Asik
Jrue trade was solid in a vacuum
Evans - (Rolo + General Greivis) after the Jrue trade was marginal at best. I'd call it bad within the context of it. Giving away Rolo is also the reason for:
quote:
Asik
Posted on 12/3/15 at 9:55 am to corndeaux
quote:
Interesting to wonder if they just bet at the wrong time. They went with a top heavy team as the league seems to be moving towards deeper and deeper rosters.
I might take this thought in a slightly different direction. What they bet on were one dimensional players in a league that is getting better and better at exploiting your weaknesses. The Unholy Trinity of Tyreke/Asik/Gee were only in the game for a few minutes last night, but it was immediately a problem and fortunately Gentry pulled it pretty quickly.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 10:10 am to corndeaux
I mean this is pretty much rehashing stuff talked ad nauseum.
I'd like to see realistic solutions
I'd like to see realistic solutions
Posted on 12/3/15 at 10:28 am to corndeaux
I'm not sure why everyone is in such a hurry....AD is only 22 yrs old and has already extended his contract.
It took Golden State 5-6 years to build around Steph. They didn't make the playoffs his first few years in the league. Hell Setph didn't avg over 20pts a game until like his 4th or 5th year.
I think we are being way too impatient. Our guys are young in championship contender terms. Keep building our bench and getting experience and we will be ok.
It took Golden State 5-6 years to build around Steph. They didn't make the playoffs his first few years in the league. Hell Setph didn't avg over 20pts a game until like his 4th or 5th year.
I think we are being way too impatient. Our guys are young in championship contender terms. Keep building our bench and getting experience and we will be ok.
This post was edited on 12/3/15 at 10:40 am
Posted on 12/3/15 at 10:34 am to LosLobos111
quote:
realistic solutions
There are 2 big questions to ask.
1) Are Gentry/Demps the right guys at the top
2) Is this roster salvagable or do you need to be aiming for Clean Slate 2017?
I really don't think we can judge Gentry until Pondexter returns and we get about 15-20 games with most of the "core". The brief glimpse we got of Tyreke/Asik/Gee said it all. Gentry had to choose between a wing defender on Harden or defense and rebounding down low, he chose Gee over Asik which was probably the right call, but if Pondexter had been available he could have had defense at both positions.
On top of that you had Gordon and Cole shooting you out of the game. If you could turn Gee into PJ Tucker and Cole into Anthony Morrow, does that change things drastically? Another good shooter in Morrow for the nights Gordon is off and 2 3 and D wings in QPon and Tucker so you can have Asik's interior defense and rebounding when you need to. As marginal as those moves sound, they solve a lot of problems this team has. Make those moves and if you don't start crushing the league then look at blowing up the roster and possibly the FO.
This post was edited on 12/3/15 at 10:49 am
Posted on 12/3/15 at 11:02 am to LosLobos111
quote:
I'd like to see realistic solutions
There aren't any immediately realistic solutions. Demps put us behind the 8-ball by selling off our future. We just have to hope some topflight FA decides to come here. That's the only hope it would seem.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 11:06 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I really don't think we can judge Gentry until Pondexter returns and we get about 15-20 games with most of the "core".
QPon should not make that big of a difference. Everyone is healthy now, except for him. There is no reason we should be under .500 with the healthy players we have now. This is basically the same exact team now as the end of last year, with Ryno playing better and EG playing worst, minus a SF that wouldn't start for 90% of the teams in the league.
If we finish December with a dismal record, i want the coach and the GM gone and start from scratch. Don't do anything stupid trade wise, have cap space and a nice draft pick for next year.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 11:14 am to TeddyPadillac
Ryno looks like he could be a hot commodity come February...Makes me nervous...
Posted on 12/3/15 at 11:20 am to Solo
I also want Loomis nowhere near the team. Rita may not be that bad, actually.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 11:31 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
QPon should not make that big of a difference.
On a SEGABABA when Jrue is out it does. Gentry had to choose between perimeter defense or interior defense last night, Pondexter or an available Holiday would have let him have both. Holiday instead of Cole shooting us out of the game would have made a difference too.
This post was edited on 12/3/15 at 11:32 am
Posted on 12/3/15 at 11:45 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Gentry had to choose between perimeter defense or interior defense last night,
We have no defense, so not sure why that even matters. This is a game, once again, Asik should have been helpful in, yet Ajinca did just as much in half the time Asik played. Despite the two of them not playing that much, Howard didnt' play that great at all, so the choice to have perimeter defense in the game didn't work, despite putting in players that can supposedly defend the perimeter.
There was a time in the game where Cole/Ish/Douglas were on the court at the same time.
that's just retarded.
quote:
Holiday instead of Cole shooting us out of the game would have made a difference too.
Or.....you have guys like Anthony Davis taking the shots, or even Tyreke, or Ryno, or a wide open EG(regardless how shitty he's been lately)
Coles defense is on par with Jrue's.
An offense of Cole throwing up 3's and long 2's without AD touching the ball, or anyone else for that matter, should never happen. That's not a personnel problem. that's a player being an idiot and a coach not coaching.
I've got zero problems with Cole shooting wide open 3's off a kick out.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:39 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
On top of that you had Gordon and Cole shooting you out of the game.
Gordon wasn't that bad. He shot 40%. The team as a whole shot 40.9%. He has had better nights, but Davis is really the only person that had a better shooting night.
Nobody shot us out of the game. The whole team turned us over out of the game. Anderson alone had 6 turnovers and several of them were absolutely inexcusable giveaways under our own basket.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:43 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
What they bet on were one dimensional players in a league that is getting better and better at exploiting your weaknesses
Excellent point and very true. It's a versatile league now. The irony is that they have one of the best and most versatile players in the league, yet have surrounded him with largely one way guys.
quote:
I mean this is pretty much rehashing stuff talked ad nauseum.
I'd like to see realistic solutions
You can't move forward without understanding how you got here. It's not knee jerk "fire demps." It's an autopsy. And there are no "realistic" solutions. They need time and luck to right the ship. The only thing they need to avoid is a quick fix plan.
quote:
It took Golden State 5-6 years to build around Steph. They didn't make the playoffs his first few years in the league. Hell Setph didn't avg over 20pts a game until like his 4th or 5th year.
True, the Pels still have time. But GS also didn't send out 3 years of 1sts to build a team around Steph. Klay, Barnes, Ezeli, Green are all drafted and developed players. They spent those first few years of Steph's career together, building an identity. Plenty of luck involved too, of course.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:45 pm to Jester
quote:
Gordon wasn't that bad. He shot 40%.
1/5 from 3 though, and 10 points in 33 minutes. I'm not saying we lost because of Gordon, but hitting his season averages would have been helpful.
quote:
The whole team turned us over out of the game.
True, I don't know if you got to see the Pels feed, but one of the last turnovers Joel was so pissed I thought he was going to throw something
Posted on 12/3/15 at 12:47 pm to Rico Tubbs
quote:
It took Golden State 5-6 years to build around Steph. They didn't make the playoffs his first few years in the league. Hell Setph didn't avg over 20pts a game until like his 4th or 5th year.
They also have teh best player in the NBA making the same amount as Asik.
They also have 3 more starters and a good bench player making combined less than Asik, 1 of them an all star, the other a DPOY.
drafting Thompson, Green, Barnes, Ezeli helps a lot.
Posted on 12/3/15 at 1:07 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
1/5 from 3 though, and 10 points in 33 minutes. I'm not saying we lost because of Gordon, but hitting his season averages would have been helpful.
Definitely would have helped. I just think the "shooting us out of the game" implies chucking.
quote:
True, I don't know if you got to see the Pels feed, but one of the last turnovers Joel was so pissed I thought he was going to throw something
I think that may have been the lazy inbounds pass. We had 2 or three guys available in the backcourt and we make a lazy, bad pass to the guy directly under the basket.
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