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Justify the non-traditional roster
Posted on 5/14/14 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 5/14/14 at 3:36 pm
So, clearly we are seeing Demps build what we'd call an unconventional roster for the time being. The idea being that the NBA is shifting in that direction. However, looking at the teams left in the playoffs, the traditional roster is not as outdated as we've been led to believe. Outside of the Heat, all of the remaining teams have fairly traditional rosters. Looking back at the championship teams over the last decade or so, the same is basically true.
Now, we know that the superstar Heat are an anomaly. Most franchises will not be able to sustain a build like that. Is the small-ball lineup actually trending toward becoming the norm or is it just an extension of the exciting Suns teams that can't win when it matters?
Now, we know that the superstar Heat are an anomaly. Most franchises will not be able to sustain a build like that. Is the small-ball lineup actually trending toward becoming the norm or is it just an extension of the exciting Suns teams that can't win when it matters?
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Posted on 5/14/14 at 3:50 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Is the small-ball lineup actually trending toward becoming the norm
Yes and no. You want size if you can get it. But you need flexibility. All of the remaining teams, even Indiana, have gone small at times, often with success.
The bigger issue is limiting the number of guys you roll out whose clear weaknesses can't be hidden or mitigated. In the playoffs, it is increasingly harder to win playing guys like that big minutes.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:14 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
Balance is key
If we had a legit 5 instead of EG we'd be pretty traditional(in a sense)
I also think demps has some master plan in mind.
He's seeing who fits and the "loser" goes
If we had a legit 5 instead of EG we'd be pretty traditional(in a sense)
I also think demps has some master plan in mind.
He's seeing who fits and the "loser" goes
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:21 pm to LosLobos111
quote:
I also think demps has some master plan in mind.
I'd really like to believe this.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:23 pm to LosLobos111
quote:
If we had a legit 5 instead of EG we'd be pretty traditional(in a sense)
We don't, though. We have a crowded back court and a very thin front court.
quote:
I also think demps has some master plan in mind.
I hope you're right, but I'm not seeing it. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but his plan thus far seems to be talent acquisition regardless of fit.
quote:
He's seeing who fits and the "loser" goes
The problem is that he's tied us into big, long-term salary for conflicting pieces. If he can't turn one of his high-paid guards into a legit center, it's all for not.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:26 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
legit center
How do you define legit?
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:32 pm to corndeaux
quote:
How do you define legit?
Rebounds.
Can catch a basketball
Can get off the floor quickly enough or create enough space to get a shot off in the post
Doesn't average 8 fouls per 36
I'm not expecting Marc Gasol here. Just someone that can defend the post respectably and gobble up rebounds. We're probably going to lose Aminu's rebounding, so we need a C that doesn't leave as many available to glass crashers
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:34 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
Even if we disagree on what a legit 5 is, I think we can agree on what a legit 5 isn't. The 3 centers on our roster this year are not legit 5s. Maybe Withey takes a major step forward, but he came out after his senior year, so he isn't some undeveloped youngster who is all upside.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:39 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
We don't, though. We have a crowded back court and a very thin front court.
AD/Ryno/Ajinca/Withey/Smiht is not a bad frontcourt. We just have guys starting that shouldn't be(Ajinca/Withey at the moment) If we had an asik starting it'd look a bit different in terms of depth.
Hopefully we unload roberts/EG so it evens out a bit.
quote:
I hope you're right, but I'm not seeing it. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but his plan thus far seems to be talent acquisition regardless of fit.
Jrue/Tyreke will fit together fine imo it's EG that throws it off.
quote:
The problem is that he's tied us into big, long-term salary for conflicting pieces. If he can't turn one of his high-paid guards into a legit center, it's all for not.
Again the only real conflicting piece is EG. Jrue/Tyreke are worth what they're making.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:46 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
I think that definition is a great one.
I would kill to have Tiago Splitter on this team. Smart, versatile, can defend, can rebound, gives you flexibility.
I would kill to have Tiago Splitter on this team. Smart, versatile, can defend, can rebound, gives you flexibility.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:53 pm to LosLobos111
quote:
AD/Ryno/Ajinca/Withey/Smiht is not a bad frontcourt
You have 2 guys with starter talent who play the same position, but shouldn't be asked to defend post bangers regularly. To the legit 5 point, there isn't a legit 5 in that list.
quote:
If we had an asik starting it'd look a bit different in terms of depth.
No doubt, but he don't come free
quote:
Hopefully we unload roberts/EG so it evens out a bit.
Roberts is probably gone. Gordon is going to be tough to move
quote:
Jrue/Tyreke will fit together fine imo it's EG that throws it off.
I think Jrue/EG could fit well together. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see enough of Jrue to determine who fits better next to him. Jrue isn't exactly a sharpshooter, so I'm not sure how well he'll do standing around waiting on Evans to to crash the lane.
quote:
Again the only real conflicting piece is EG. Jrue/Tyreke are worth what they're making.
EG is overpaid, but that doesn't make him any more of a conflicting piece. They all kind of conflict with each other, which is what most national writers screamed when Evans was brought in. The problem is that Gordon will be harder to move than Evans, so that affects how you can build around Holiday/Evans.
Are we better off with Holiday/Evans and some shitty expiring or Holiday/Gordon and an upgrade at the 3 or 5? That's the real question, and none of us know the answer.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:57 pm to LosLobos111
quote:
If we had a legit 5 instead of EG we'd be pretty traditional(in a sense)
Is Keeping our current rotation that bad though?
I know Tyreke is more suited for SG, but why is him playing at the 3 such a horrible deal? He has height and quickness to match with both smaller and larger 3's. While he and Gordon are both slashers to the basket, Gordon is a better outside shooter and Jrue is a legit outside shooter as well.
I honestly think that with the right coach and picking up a decent center, this team could compete pretty legitimately. The main problem is that Williams is not the coach for that team and I think his coaching has hurt Gordon as much as his injuries and attitude. Seeing Tyreke's performance to end the season should prove Monty's inability to coach the 1-3 positions.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:59 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but his plan thus far seems to be talent acquisition regardless of fit.
never a bad thing to acquire assets…although he's pushing the limit on how much he pays for them and the fit.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:59 pm to corndeaux
I'll add that I disagree with Monty/Dell on finding a 5 as the top priority. They certainly need better than what they have, but their wing play is abysmal.
They need a big who can rebound and defend but they need more 6'8" guys of varying skills more. I think they could be a playoff team with more capable wings
They need a big who can rebound and defend but they need more 6'8" guys of varying skills more. I think they could be a playoff team with more capable wings
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:05 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
I know Tyreke is more suited for SG, but why is him playing at the 3 such a horrible deal? He has height and quickness to match with both smaller and larger 3's.
Tyreke does not have the height to match the larger 3s. Evans was measured at 6'4". Durant was measured at 6'9". Lebron was 6'7.25" at the combine. That's just a quick taste.
ETA - All of the above are true heights (without shoes). Don't get me started. I've never seen anyone play in heels.
quote:
Seeing Tyreke's performance to end the season should prove Monty's inability to coach the 1-3 positions.
I'm not sure how this makes sense.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 5:07 pm
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:15 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
we are seeing Demps build what we'd call an unconventional roster for the time being
Unbalanced is a more accurate term because it suggests there will be a future attempt to rebalance the roster. It's been obvious from the moment they signed Tyreke that Gordon was gone ASAP. Loomis may be new to the NBA, but he should know enough about numbers to see that 1) having 2 $10 million 6th men is a bad idea, and 2) tying up 60% of your salary cap in 3 "starters" that play 2 positions is a bad idea.
The roster he assembled in year 2 AD is not a finished product. He took a calculated risk, "I can get 2 young All Star caliber guards but the backcourt and salary cap will be crowded until I can move Gordon, or I can wait 2 years until I move Gordon and hope I can find as much talent then" As he's done with many of his moves, he chose to trade cap space and uncertain future assets, for certain present assets.
We're all pretty much agreed that if this roster is healthy it's a playoff bubble team, basically what Minnesota was this season, maybe a little better. A 42-45 win team meets expectations, and if that happens then the focus is not on what's wrong with the roster but what's right with it and his seat is a lot cooler and confidence in a long term view is justified.
If we don't turn Gordon's salary slot into a "starting" 3/5 by 2015 FA then obviously Demps is in over his head and should go. And if the team is bad again next year he may not get the chance, but until then I think there's enough evidence to suggest he's being patient and calculated and we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's being unconventional just because Gordon was a big mistake that is taking a while to correct.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:16 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
You have 2 guys with starter talent who play the same position, but shouldn't be asked to defend post bangers regularly. To the legit 5 point, there isn't a legit 5 in that list.
I thought Ajinca/Withey held their own pretty well and will get better with time. You could do far worse than them(see steimsma,greg) at their current contracts.
AD will probably play the 5 in crunch time like a lot of players have done(duncan/KG etc) and he'll put on more bulk in the offseason hopefully.
AD can defend the banger but shouldn't do it the entire game(which ajinca/withey can help with)
quote:
Roberts is probably gone. Gordon is going to be tough to move
Dunno we can always stretch provision him if all else fails or put his arse as the sixth man.
quote:
I think Jrue/EG could fit well together. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see enough of Jrue to determine who fits better next to him. Jrue isn't exactly a sharpshooter, so I'm not sure how well he'll do standing around waiting on Evans to to crash the lane.
Jrue is a very good outside shooter so it's really no big deal if he's on the outside defering to tyreke to attack the basket. He'll still command attention.
Tyreke's outside game looked better as the season winded down so there's that too.
quote:
EG is overpaid, but that doesn't make him any more of a conflicting piece. They all kind of conflict with each other, which is what most national writers screamed when Evans was brought in. The problem is that Gordon will be harder to move than Evans, so that affects how you can build around Holiday/Evans.
Are we better off with Holiday/Evans and some shitty expiring or Holiday/Gordon and an upgrade at the 3 or 5? That's the real question, and none of us know the answer.
It makes Gordon the odd man out due to how vast the disparity is between him and tyreke starting.
A monkey could see how much better the team flowed with tyreke starting.
The national writers make judgements before seeing how things play out.
If tyreke can play that well with a ballhog like roberts,he sure in the hell can play with jrue.
I'd take the expiring because it would be a 3+D SF or something we could use. Worst case scenario you flip him for something at the deadline.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:16 pm to corndeaux
quote:
I'll add that I disagree with Monty/Dell on finding a 5 as the top priority.
I don't know Demps' view, but in the exit interview Monty made it sound like SF was the more glaring of the 2 holes, although they'd obviously like to fill both.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:20 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
I'm not sure how this makes sense.
My point is Monty struggles most at rotations in those positions and honestly, I haven't really seen much guard improvement other than Vasquez in his time here.
Monty isn't a horrible coach, I just think he's best fit as an assistant rather than a head coach, unless he's got a transcendent player like CP3 at the 1.
In the end, I don't think the Pelican's roster issues at the 1-3 spot are as bad as some believe as far as talent and potential goes, but with Monty as coach it will never be realized and it makes it look way worse than it is.
Also, the hate Gordon gets on here is ridiculous. You'd think he's playing as bad as some other guys that got big contracts. Is he great? No. Is he a legit NBA starter? Yes. He's overpaid, but he's not horrid.
Monty's struggled with 2 Guards basically every year he's been with this team.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:21 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
I haven't really seen much guard improvement other than Vasquez in his time here.
Rivers has turned it around pretty good fwiw
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