re: General NBA Links

So, with our current limited options, in our best case scenario let's say somehow we make room for either:

1. Another very good big man to pair with AD who can play defense, make foul shots and give you 8-12 ppg who can arguably be part of our core group;
and
a serviceable, consistent 3 who can play defense, handle the ball, rebound decently and give you occasional scoring;

OR

2. Another somewhat "quality" big body who is better and more complete than Steimsma and Ajinca but not as good as in 1. above
and
a really athletic, consistent 3 who can be part of the three man core.

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Yeah. I guess I am just terribly confused by the Evans move. I like Evans. I like his game, warts and all. I liked the trade because I interpreted it as a move toward a coherent philosophy.

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I think it was asset. His declining deal makes himnharder to extend if his production remains high since extensions are anchored by the value at the end of the existing deal. This perhaps gives a clue to their long-term reliance on him.

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Interesting. Want to share? No judging from me- can't make the same promise for the other 5 people that are still reading this thread

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I think a young big not listed in the comments earlier today. My current thought is Jonas Valanciunas, but that is just me noodling on an idea.

Again, I like Evans. I'd be happy waching him and Ryno with the team, title or no. I am not expressing my likes, but my assessment and conjecture of the Peliplan.

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Teams don't usually trade good bigs on rookie deals. And any RFA bigs that are good enough to go after are probably not realistic targets. I suppose if you put Ryno on the table in a S&T it could work, but I see that as a lateral move. If you add a good 3rd big to AD/Ryno then you have maybe the best frontcourt rotation in the league.

I will say that going after Monroe this offseason or Vucevic in 2015 would match Demps often used strategy of targeting RFAs that may not fit into a team's long term plans, but I think I'd rather have Ryno + Asik than Monroe/Vucevic and $5 million in cap space.

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Well, the Pelicans need to get a players thst other teams will want, so they have to make it worth it. They went and got an All-Star guard coming off a rookie deal...how common is that? If they work in uncommon ways (batting 1.000 on RFA signings), then common matters how?

Again, these are not our assessmemts we are discussing. We are discussing what the Oelicans want... Control the paint, slashing guards... We all want Ryno, but I'm not sure they do.

What makes you think they do?

I think those are both options the team is looking for. I'd be happy with either one.

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ATL

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42

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I get asset gathering and the decreasing contract point is a good one.

If we take ATL's first two Philosophy Tenets as something close to what they were thinking (fair I think), I still think it's a bit of a stretch.

Build inside-out by moving your cheap, decent center for a 3rd high usage guard at 4/$40+M? At that point I don't know if you could reasonably expect to move Gordon, why double down at the guard spot? Lopez would still have value as a cheap, capable center this past season, this summer, and at the next deadline.

Do y'all think Houston walks away from Anderson/Lopez for Asik/Jones + pick or another young player?

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Well, the Pelicans need to get a players thst other teams will want, so they have to make it worth i

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The landscape for player movement has changed with the new CBA. I don't think we really know how it will play out for a while.

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With any reasonable level of health, this team probably is right there in the playoff race and Monty and Demps' seats aren't that hot

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Not really about wins and losses for me.

I get that injury ruined whatever plan they thought they had. I just don't believe they really had a plan for this roster. And if the plan was play out and see what opens up, fine but at least cook with the ingredients you bought.

I don't think any one can sell me on the idea that they knew what they were doing by signing Evans w/ Gordon (who had no trade value at the time) and Holiday based on how things played out, even before injuries, and based on comments from the team brain trust.

And I'll happily eat crow on that one.

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bad rebounder and terrible at defending the P&R.

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I'd take Lopez's 9.6 R and 2.7 fouls Per 36 right now. As for defense, he's slow but the scheme exposed him more than necessary. All the bigs, even Davis at times, look awful running Montys hard hedge scheme.

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Anderson/Asik

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You really think Houston walks from that deal? They wanted a stretch 4 and cheap backup center. They turn down a premier stretch 4 and backup C for a disgruntled player and young unknown assets? The Pels probably want more shooting back, but, shite, I don't know. They seem pretty allergic to the 3pt line.

To echo 42, I am happy to roll with Anderson. But if the team thinks Anderson/Davis is a rare thing....

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You really think Houston walks from that deal?

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No, I think the Pelicans do. From Houston's perspective they are trading a backup for a starter, it's a clear fit upgrade even if the NBA2k value is equal. From the Pels perspective, they are making a lateral move, not an upgrade, so they would need more value to have interest. I really do think they'd want something in the ball park of Asik + Parsons if the only assets you're dealing with are the Rockets and Pels. Maybe you get a 3rd team involved and turn a Terrence Jones into a Wilson Chandler and get a little closer to fair value, but in a 2 team deal I don't see a trade that works.

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Not really about wins and losses for me.

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The point of the record wasn't about pleasing fans it was about guessing Demps expectations and therefore confidence in his position. If the team is healthy then a 45ish win season seems reasonable and so does being confident enough to unbalance the roster in the short term so it will be stronger when you rebalance it in the long term.

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I'd take Lopez's 9.6 R and 2.7 fouls Per 36 right now.

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Again, you're looking at this short term, and my presumption is that Demps was ok trading talent in the short term to secure talent in the long term. He literally said as much after the Tyreke trade saying it'd be easier to replace a Lopez later than find a Tyreke later. Considering our cap space he had to know the centers he'd have a shot at for this season. He either miscalculated Smith's effectiveness and health as a starter, or he was ok with having Stiemsma level talent for a year as the price of unbalancing the roster with Tyreke.

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I don't think any one can sell me on the idea that they knew what they were doing by signing Evans w/ Gordon (who had no trade value at the time) and Holiday based on how things played out, even before injuries, and based on comments from the team brain trust.

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If "knew what they were doing" = Tyreke is 100% the SG of the future, then I would agree, they didn't know what they were doing. But Tyreke both fits the general profile Demps has laid out and should have decent trade down the line if he's not a permanent piece. Again, the alternative is using Tyreke's cap space on someone older that would take a deal that ended by 2015. Even if you signed Iggy, which wouldn't happen since he was a hot commodity and got a 4 year deal, how does that really advance your team in the long term? You dump Gordon along the way and hit 2015 with $30 million in cap space to sign 3 starters. SG, SF, C. Or you get Tyreke now dump Gordon and have $20 million in cap space to sign 2 starters, SF and C. Look back to the Holiday trade, Demps traded cap space and uncertainty for certainty. Tyreke was a similar move of cap space for certainty.

Sail boats often have to do what is called tacking, which is basically zig zagging to get to the same point a straight line would have taken you if the wind was cooperating. I think you are expecting to see a straight line and are viewing tacking as a lack of a coherent plan. Sometimes the wind just isn't with you and you have to tack to get where you want to go.

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To echo 42, I am happy to roll with Anderson. But if the team thinks Anderson/Davis is a rare thing....

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Thinking about the potential of trading Gordon for Bargnani got me wondering how cheap he'll be on the open market. Maybe MLE level? He's still a pretty decent player, and while not the 3 point shooter Anderson is, he is a stretch big that's reasonably productive. He really is similar to Gordon in many respects, you'd probably be happy to have him on your team for $6 million per year.

Star players are rare. That is why I think they go for a guy that is not quite developed yet. Trade for a guy who they can lock up (rookie or guy early in second deal) to be while Davis grows, then hope that is enough gravity to keep the mass together or maybe go nova.

Risk.

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I.E., if Dell was fine playing Evans at the 3 and rolling with replacement level bigs for a year, Monty did not seem to be.

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Monty is hard to read. Honestly many of his most frustrating decisions can be explained by his preference for veterans, defense, and players earning his trust. One of his early concerns was Tyreke at SF having to switch onto a PF. We still don't know if the decision to bench Aminu and start Tyreke was Monty's. Many of us felt it was forced from the top at the time.

Does Monty finally understand Tyreke now that he has a reference point from his era?

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Williams then likened Evans’ performance to that of one of the greatest point guards to ever play in the NBA.

“It was a Magic Johnson night,” Williams said.

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Some of your reservations, which I don't disagree with, are 1) Monty wants to use Holiday like CP3 even though that's not the best use of his skill set and 2) Monty doesn't know what to do with Tyreke. Tyreke may not be the starting PG next season, but it's going to be really hard to keep the ball out of his hands after seeing what he can do with it. Do you like a Tyreke PG and Jrue SG system? One of the knocks against Tyreke as PG his whole career has been he was too selfish or not a good enough passer, but he seems to have gotten pretty good at setting guys up.

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Can Jrue play the 2 on the offensive end?

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He's got a good catch and shoot percentage, corndeaux has described him as a 3 and D guard many times. I don't see why he'd have any trouble playing off ball on offense and guarding the best guard on defense. I will say I've only really seen him initiate his own offense or do the spot up catch and shoot. If you want a guy that's going to be doing catch and shoot off screens, maybe that's one of the reasons you bring Morrow back, we know he can do that.