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Better Job: Pelicans or Bulls?
Posted on 5/22/15 at 9:26 am
Posted on 5/22/15 at 9:26 am
SIAP
ESPN Insider article, so can't link, but Tom Penn (in the role of GM), Chad Ford(Asst.GM), David Thorpe(Senior Consultant), Kevin Pelton(Analytics Director) and Amin Elhasssan(Scouting Director) discuss which situation presents the most favorable coaching opportunity.
Excerpts:
1. Did the Pelicans need to fire Monty Williams?
Kevin Pelton: I think my biggest criticism is that they were not able to build a competitive defense.
David Thorpe: If you watched them, game in, game out, Williams was fine. But we should probably expect more than just fine. We've talked about this before: There are just a few coaches who really can press buttons at an elite level, and there are a few who are disastrous no matter what the roster. The rest are all about the same, give or take. That's what the evidence suggests overwhelmingly. And I think Williams was squarely in that middle ground: He wasn't a special X's and O's guy, he's not an innovator. In fact, some probably would say he's below average in terms of defensive schemes but also his teaching points. I think that's the one thing a front office has to ask itself: Are you going to bring in someone who's not just better immediately, but also in the long term? I think making the playoffs is definitely a worthwhile thing to celebrate to some degree. They have a good roster, so they should have been good. They just weren't very good.
2. Tom Thibodeau could be out in Chicago. Is the Pelicans' job a better one than the Bulls'?
Thorpe: Davis is 22, but the rest of his teammates are in their peak years, so this is not that young of a team. We just haven't been together a long time. Tyreke Evans is the youngest of our other core guys, and he's 25. We're ready to really gallop, and we have the No. 2 player in the world.
Elhassan: Agreed. The chance to coach Anthony Davis is huge. He is still at the beginning of his career, but more importantly, he's really starting to figure things out. This is a golden time that might get a coach's name retired in the rafters of our building one day, just because you're in the right place at the right time. I would definitely go with us over the Bulls. Of course, our ownership situation is a little uncertain right now, but I don't get the feeling that spending money is an issue. The Bulls try to cut corners and costs. It's not just a Thibodeau issue; I think there are a lot of things going on in that organization, and I'm not sure ownership would be willing to listen. So if I'm a coach, that's another reason to come to us rather than Chicago.
Penn: Davis is the No. 1 player, and he's wired like Tim Duncan: just a sweetheart of a guy, incredibly competitive and bright, and he's here for the long haul. He's committed. So that's as good as it gets for a coach in having a star player.
Ford: Davis, by himself, almost makes our job more valuable than the Bulls' job. Davis is going to be the best player in the league for the next five or six years.
Penn: OK, so who do we have as potential candidates?
Thorpe: This probably is a little off the wall, but I'd love for us to look at Spurs assistant Ettore Messina. I think he's extremely knowledgeable in the NBA now, doesn't need to grow with the team (he's 55), and he's won multiple Euroleague championships. He's been with Gregg Popovich for a long time. I love how Tom talked about Davis being wired like Duncan -- I really could see Messina having a similar relationship with Davis and bringing out just the very best in him.
Elhassan: I like Messina as well, Coach. I've got a list of guys here. I think Mark Jackson would actually be a good fit here, too.
Penn: No, thank you.
Thorpe: I would salute Alvin Gentry, but not Jackson.
Elhassan: OK, OK, hold on. Gentry's on the list, as well. The reason why I say Jackson is because I look at the defensive turnaround that they had in Golden State, and Jackson was responsible for that.
Ford: We keep hearing Thibs, but would we want another headstrong NBA coach that is hell-bent on doing things his way? Thibs would be great, but I really like the idea of Gentry in New Orleans. The thing about Gentry is that he's flexible. He adapts his offense and defense to the personnel he has. Thibs tries to bend every player and team to his system. But Gentry's flexibility is a strength on a roster like this.
Thorpe: I like Gentry for the Bulls' job.
Elhassan: The third name I have is Mike Malone, who I thought got a raw deal in Sacramento. I think he's a guy who will bring us a defensive identity. He'd be a great fit. I thought he was doing a good job with that Kings roster. He had them playing better defense than they played in seven seasons. And he was an assistant coach for us three or four years ago.
And, an Asik tidbit:
Thorpe: I think Asik is a guy who could be a much better player with better coaching. To me, he's been a big disappointment on the offensive end, especially. Defensively, I see it more of a scheme thing and how it's being executed. We know he should be an elite-level defender/rebounder; he's a horrid offensive player in a way that DeAndre Jordan used to be, but isn't anymore. Asik can be better, and I think the right coach can definitely impact that.
ESPN Insider article, so can't link, but Tom Penn (in the role of GM), Chad Ford(Asst.GM), David Thorpe(Senior Consultant), Kevin Pelton(Analytics Director) and Amin Elhasssan(Scouting Director) discuss which situation presents the most favorable coaching opportunity.
Excerpts:
1. Did the Pelicans need to fire Monty Williams?
Kevin Pelton: I think my biggest criticism is that they were not able to build a competitive defense.
David Thorpe: If you watched them, game in, game out, Williams was fine. But we should probably expect more than just fine. We've talked about this before: There are just a few coaches who really can press buttons at an elite level, and there are a few who are disastrous no matter what the roster. The rest are all about the same, give or take. That's what the evidence suggests overwhelmingly. And I think Williams was squarely in that middle ground: He wasn't a special X's and O's guy, he's not an innovator. In fact, some probably would say he's below average in terms of defensive schemes but also his teaching points. I think that's the one thing a front office has to ask itself: Are you going to bring in someone who's not just better immediately, but also in the long term? I think making the playoffs is definitely a worthwhile thing to celebrate to some degree. They have a good roster, so they should have been good. They just weren't very good.
2. Tom Thibodeau could be out in Chicago. Is the Pelicans' job a better one than the Bulls'?
Thorpe: Davis is 22, but the rest of his teammates are in their peak years, so this is not that young of a team. We just haven't been together a long time. Tyreke Evans is the youngest of our other core guys, and he's 25. We're ready to really gallop, and we have the No. 2 player in the world.
Elhassan: Agreed. The chance to coach Anthony Davis is huge. He is still at the beginning of his career, but more importantly, he's really starting to figure things out. This is a golden time that might get a coach's name retired in the rafters of our building one day, just because you're in the right place at the right time. I would definitely go with us over the Bulls. Of course, our ownership situation is a little uncertain right now, but I don't get the feeling that spending money is an issue. The Bulls try to cut corners and costs. It's not just a Thibodeau issue; I think there are a lot of things going on in that organization, and I'm not sure ownership would be willing to listen. So if I'm a coach, that's another reason to come to us rather than Chicago.
Penn: Davis is the No. 1 player, and he's wired like Tim Duncan: just a sweetheart of a guy, incredibly competitive and bright, and he's here for the long haul. He's committed. So that's as good as it gets for a coach in having a star player.
Ford: Davis, by himself, almost makes our job more valuable than the Bulls' job. Davis is going to be the best player in the league for the next five or six years.
Penn: OK, so who do we have as potential candidates?
Thorpe: This probably is a little off the wall, but I'd love for us to look at Spurs assistant Ettore Messina. I think he's extremely knowledgeable in the NBA now, doesn't need to grow with the team (he's 55), and he's won multiple Euroleague championships. He's been with Gregg Popovich for a long time. I love how Tom talked about Davis being wired like Duncan -- I really could see Messina having a similar relationship with Davis and bringing out just the very best in him.
Elhassan: I like Messina as well, Coach. I've got a list of guys here. I think Mark Jackson would actually be a good fit here, too.
Penn: No, thank you.
Thorpe: I would salute Alvin Gentry, but not Jackson.
Elhassan: OK, OK, hold on. Gentry's on the list, as well. The reason why I say Jackson is because I look at the defensive turnaround that they had in Golden State, and Jackson was responsible for that.
Ford: We keep hearing Thibs, but would we want another headstrong NBA coach that is hell-bent on doing things his way? Thibs would be great, but I really like the idea of Gentry in New Orleans. The thing about Gentry is that he's flexible. He adapts his offense and defense to the personnel he has. Thibs tries to bend every player and team to his system. But Gentry's flexibility is a strength on a roster like this.
Thorpe: I like Gentry for the Bulls' job.
Elhassan: The third name I have is Mike Malone, who I thought got a raw deal in Sacramento. I think he's a guy who will bring us a defensive identity. He'd be a great fit. I thought he was doing a good job with that Kings roster. He had them playing better defense than they played in seven seasons. And he was an assistant coach for us three or four years ago.
And, an Asik tidbit:
Thorpe: I think Asik is a guy who could be a much better player with better coaching. To me, he's been a big disappointment on the offensive end, especially. Defensively, I see it more of a scheme thing and how it's being executed. We know he should be an elite-level defender/rebounder; he's a horrid offensive player in a way that DeAndre Jordan used to be, but isn't anymore. Asik can be better, and I think the right coach can definitely impact that.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 9:37 am to VOR
quote:
Elhassan: OK, OK, hold on. Gentry's on the list, as well. The reason why I say Jackson is because I look at the defensive turnaround that they had in Golden State, and Jackson was responsible for that.
Mike Malone joins the entire board in saying Amin.
This post was edited on 5/22/15 at 9:37 am
Posted on 5/22/15 at 9:41 am to VOR
quote:
David Thorpe: If you watched them, game in, game out, Williams was fine. But we should probably expect more than just fine. We've talked about this before: There are just a few coaches who really can press buttons at an elite level, and there are a few who are disastrous no matter what the roster. The rest are all about the same, give or take. That's what the evidence suggests overwhelmingly. And I think Williams was squarely in that middle ground: He wasn't a special X's and O's guy, he's not an innovator. In fact, some probably would say he's below average in terms of defensive schemes but also his teaching points. I think that's the one thing a front office has to ask itself: Are you going to bring in someone who's not just better immediately, but also in the long term? I think making the playoffs is definitely a worthwhile thing to celebrate to some degree. They have a good roster, so they should have been good. They just weren't very good.
This pretty much hits the nail on the head for me. I agree with everything he says.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 9:46 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Mike Malone joins the entire board in saying Amin.
You'll note he does give Malone props later, though.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 9:49 am to VOR
Their coaching discussion progressively got worse.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 9:50 am to TigerinATL
Yeah, Amin Elhassan can suck a dick.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 10:11 am to VOR
Jrue is younger than Tyreke, is he not a "core piece" to these guys?
Posted on 5/22/15 at 10:21 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Jrue is younger than Tyreke, is he not a "core piece" to these guys?
That tells you all you need to know about these arse hats and this discussion.
Bucks and Celtics were the only playoff teams younger than us, and that was by decimal points, and b/c they have had draft picks recently, unlike us.
when your oldest player is 28, most would consider you a pretty young team.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 11:02 am to TeddyPadillac
Considering the rumors that DRose and Jimmy Butler cannot coexist and DRose has maybe 50 more games left in those knees, I think the Pelicans are the better job. The pieces are basically there, just need someone to cultivate the seeds.
Seriously, calling the Pelicans old was the dumbest comment I've seen all day.
quote:
Bucks and Celtics were the only playoff teams younger than us, and that was by decimal points, and b/c they have had draft picks recently, unlike us.
when your oldest player is 28, most would consider you a pretty young team.
Seriously, calling the Pelicans old was the dumbest comment I've seen all day.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 11:50 am to marchballer
quote:
DRose
Somehow this guy gets a pass, but he is a pretty big piece of crap in my book. He hasn't been healthy, taking up massive amount of cap room, and still feels entitled to call ALL the shots in Chicago. He's a very serious problem for them.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 12:12 pm to VOR
depend on the front office and the owners involvement for both
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:03 pm to marchballer
quote:I don't think we were called old as much as saying we're ready now
Seriously, calling the Pelicans old was the dumbest comment I've seen all day.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 2:21 pm to Let Me Take A Selfie
Yeah, he meant we were ready to roll agewise, not that we were over the hill.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 3:55 pm to VOR
I agree, I'm just curious if the Jrue thing was an oversight or if they don't think he's a core piece.
Posted on 5/23/15 at 12:58 am to ShamelessPel
That is a bold statement my friend.
And I neither agree nor disagree
And I neither agree nor disagree
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