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I waited for a few days after Chuck Berry's death, is he the father of Rock and Roll?

Posted on 3/28/17 at 6:56 am
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
45988 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 6:56 am
Keith Richards thinks so, even over Elvis, Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis. The origins of rock and roll are sometimes traced back to the blues, big band, and even country but when you think of rock and roll it's a man and his guitar and that's Chuck Berry!

He was the duck walking guitar player who wrote the songs, performed the songs and had the stage persona to bring it all together and birth rock and roll. Elvis was amazing but he was more of a pop idol, not a rock and roller. I could listen to the argument that Little Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis could claim the title King of rock and roll but I'll go with Chuck Berry. Anyone who's ever picked up a guitar is playing some Chuck Berry licks whether they know it or not.
This post was edited on 3/28/17 at 7:46 am
Posted by RockAndRollDetective
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2014
4506 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 7:27 am to
Since the designation of "King" means absolutely nothing in the absence of an actual monarchy, it begs the question, who gives a shite? Honestly, in this case it's nothing but a way to denote Elvis Presley without saying his name and that's pretty much it. Only nerdy parsers would be concerned with something so inconsequential.

(BTW, that is directed at the subject, which I've seen come up a few times lately, and not the OP)
This post was edited on 3/28/17 at 7:30 am
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
45988 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 7:44 am to
quote:

Since the designation of "King" means absolutely nothing in the absence of an actual monarchy, it begs the question, who gives a shite? Honestly, in this case it's nothing but a way to denote Elvis Presley without saying his name and that's pretty much it. Only nerdy parsers would be concerned with something so inconsequential.

(BTW, that is directed at the subject, which I've seen come up a few times lately, and not the OP)


But you're the RockAndRollDetective, if anyone would know who deserves the moniker of "King of Rock and Roll" you should be the one to opine. But I get what you're saying so I'll change the OP and see if it suits you better.
Posted by RockAndRollDetective
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2014
4506 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 7:58 am to
No need to change anything. Sorry if I sound rude but I've seen this discussion a few times lately. I just think it's unnecessary. There's nothing to say the term "King" means that Elvis or anybody else is the "ruler" of anything at all. It amounts to a nickname in this case, a nickname that has indicated one person for decades. Why would anybody want to confuse things by changing it up after all these years?
Posted by MorbidTheClown
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2015
65681 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 8:04 am to
Elvis was, is and always will be The King. Case closed.
Posted by TigerNlc
Chocolate City
Member since Jun 2006
32490 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 9:01 am to
quote:

Elvis was, is and always will be The King. Case closed.

Hard to disagree with this.
Posted by lsu2006
BR
Member since Feb 2004
39978 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 9:35 am to
quote:

Keith Richards thinks so, even over Elvis, Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis.

Do you even Fats Domino? SMH
Posted by FearlessFreep
Baja Alabama
Member since Nov 2009
17275 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 10:27 am to
I'm a huge fan of Jerry Lee Lewis, and some of his lesser-known early output is absolutely phenomenal - likewise Little Richard, who sold millions of records in the white-bread conservative '50s despite being a makeup-wearing androgynous black dude (nearly three decades before Prince BTW) - but for my money, rock and roll = loud, fast electric guitar:



Who's your daddy
Posted by Shotgun Willie
Member since Apr 2016
3769 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 10:38 am to
Chuck was the originator, the guy that brought the focus to the guitar in music and turned it up to 11!
Posted by Captain Fantasy
Member since Mar 2013
1595 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 10:41 am to
Yes, Chuck Berry is the father of Rock & Roll.

RIP
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 10:46 am to
quote:

Elvis was, is and always will be The King. Case closed.


Elvis was the Justin Bieber of the 1950s/60s, a pop icon for chicks and grandmothers, nothing more.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89483 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 11:04 am to
I think grandfather is probably better. He was 6 to 10 years older than most of the "original" class of rock and rollers.

It's like Chuck is the grandfather and Fats is his dapper brother.

Ike Turner, Elvis, Jerry Lee, Little Richard, and Buddy Holly are all like the "kids" - the candidates for father.

But, certainly, it's difficult to imagine a more prominent influence on the guitar sound of what was to be rock and roll - Scotty Moore and Ike might slip in there as the next 2, but Chuck stands above them, IMHO.
This post was edited on 3/28/17 at 11:05 am
Posted by LSU alum wannabe
Katy, TX
Member since Jan 2004
26964 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 11:14 am to
Elvis was the face and voice. Handsome guy for the white girls. White girls bring white boys. Without Elvis it dies.

Chuck gave rock everything else. Was anybody cranking a guitar? What pedals could you buy in 1955? Til that point guitar was the Johnny Cash song and Folsom Prison solo. Or it was straight blues. Chuck merged the two. Without him rock dies.

Without Elvis swiveling his hips rock would have suffered, but Chuck gave him the sound to swivel hips to.

There is no wrong answer.

Except Jerry Lee Lewis. He's the wrong answer. Batshit crazy bastard. Lol
Posted by MorbidTheClown
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2015
65681 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 11:17 am to
Sun Records
Posted by Zappas Stache
Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Member since Apr 2009
38652 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 11:46 am to
quote:

Was anybody cranking a guitar?


Carl Perkins was. He didn't get as big as Chuck but he was playing guitar rock-a-billy at the same time as Chuck. They toured together in 1955. My Dad saw both of them and always said Carl Perkins is the guy who made rocknroll.
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 12:28 pm to
I'd argue it was Willie Dixon and everybody at Chess Records. They played electric blues, which formed the foundation of rock n roll. It was also two white guys who owned the label selling "race records" to the mainstream, crossing over to white audiences. Dixon clung to his traditional standup bass, which rooted their sound in the previous era, but he wrote a lot of that label's hits, including a few for Chuck Berry.

Berry was that crossover artist birthed out of the blues scene that was more palatable to general audiences than someone like Howlin' Wolf. The moniker of rock n roll was eventually created to sell what a few years prior had been called "race records". Berry was a bluesman with impeccable timing, and he blossomed into star, leaving the Chicago blues scene in his dust.

I'd call Willie Dixon the father because he birthed it, but he wasn't it. At the end of the day, he was still an old bluesman, though his songs would form the spine of the early rock songbook, right up to Led Zeppellin II (without credit, of course). But Berry was one of the first stars of rock n roll. He was it. He's also one of the first guitar gods.

The Sun Records crew in Memphis have a similar tale, and more importantly than anyone would like to admit, white faces to market.
Posted by FearlessFreep
Baja Alabama
Member since Nov 2009
17275 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

Willie Dixon
And what a handsome devil he was too.



BTW, if you want to hear the most authentic sounding Delta blues record ever recorded (IMHO, of course), check out this one:



Yes, that's our man Mr. Dixon in the background - in addition to playing bass and writing one of the songs, he also produced the album . Here's a sample:

You Gonna Need My Help

ETA: the other face on the cover is the second guitarist, a 27-year-old 'kid' named Buddy Guy.
This post was edited on 3/28/17 at 12:44 pm
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
45988 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 12:55 pm to
Don't forget about Big Joe Turner, dude was one of the 1st to leave the big band scene and throw down on some early rock and roll (Shake, Rattle and Roll) and was a regular on the traveling rock and roll shows in the early to mid 50's.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89483 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

Was anybody cranking a guitar?


Well - there were cats doing it, but nothing like the volume and quality of songs that Chuck was putting out. Rock and roll kind of grew out of the mixing of jump blues, swing, big band, country and even bluegrass elements made it in to rock music.

Pretty much all "American" oriented music came together - even Jazz crept in, mostly through the drummers and horn players.
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 3/28/17 at 2:30 pm to
Great rec, great album.
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