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Villain power scale- Sauron compared to Palpatine?
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:20 pm
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:20 pm
You have the 2 big bads in 2 major fantasy/space fantasy properties, where do they match up?
Thinking about it, I would say Sauron is a tier above, and Palpatine is actually more the best version of the Witch King.
Sauron is an immortal being that existed before the creation of Arda (the universe), and actually participated in the building of it.
Palpatine, like the Witch King, is an ambitious mortal that sought to acquire great power, by tapping into dark forces. The Witch King draws from his Ring, and by extension Sauron. Palpatine draws from the Dark Side of the Force, which, if you tried to put into the same universe as Tolkien, might well be considered Morgoth's essence.
I do think Palpatine would take the Witch King, but it might be closer than expected; and I think Sauron would ensnare and enslave Palpatine, making him his new Nazgul chief.
Going into other such villains, where do you stack the Wicked Witch from Oz, Darkness from Legend, Jadis the White Witch from Narnia, etc? Who else do you nominate for consideration?
Thinking about it, I would say Sauron is a tier above, and Palpatine is actually more the best version of the Witch King.
Sauron is an immortal being that existed before the creation of Arda (the universe), and actually participated in the building of it.
Palpatine, like the Witch King, is an ambitious mortal that sought to acquire great power, by tapping into dark forces. The Witch King draws from his Ring, and by extension Sauron. Palpatine draws from the Dark Side of the Force, which, if you tried to put into the same universe as Tolkien, might well be considered Morgoth's essence.
I do think Palpatine would take the Witch King, but it might be closer than expected; and I think Sauron would ensnare and enslave Palpatine, making him his new Nazgul chief.
Going into other such villains, where do you stack the Wicked Witch from Oz, Darkness from Legend, Jadis the White Witch from Narnia, etc? Who else do you nominate for consideration?
13
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:24 pm to Scoob
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:25 pm to Scoob
Sauron is an angelic being and Palpatine was a mortal man with extreme power over a natural energy.
With the one Ring in hand, Sauron could basically control anyone, but especially those that were evil.
The emperor would be nothing more than a very powerful ringwraith by time it was over.
Here is a true worthy villain for Sauron:
With the one Ring in hand, Sauron could basically control anyone, but especially those that were evil.
The emperor would be nothing more than a very powerful ringwraith by time it was over.
Here is a true worthy villain for Sauron:
This post was edited on 2/1/23 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 2/1/23 at 10:44 pm to Scoob
The Emperor Has the Death Star to blow up Middle Earth and they have better firepower (tie fighters, lasers, Atats and Star destroyer) to take out their armies too.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:02 pm to Scoob
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:04 pm to Scoob
Not just 2 different periods, or worlds, but entirely different galaxies.
What I love about Tolkien is that as the Elves left, the world changed. What came before faded away entirely. Same with Sauron. He put so much of his essence into the rings and the ONE ring that once it was undone, so was he.
In the SW universe, The Force existed within and in-between all things. The ability to use and control the Force was a unique gift, which few had and even less could master.
What I love about Tolkien is that as the Elves left, the world changed. What came before faded away entirely. Same with Sauron. He put so much of his essence into the rings and the ONE ring that once it was undone, so was he.
In the SW universe, The Force existed within and in-between all things. The ability to use and control the Force was a unique gift, which few had and even less could master.
Posted on 2/1/23 at 11:27 pm to Scoob
Lightning fingers and telekinesis aren't going to do anything to Sauron. I think Gandalf could beat the emperor, as could the Balrog, Saruman and maybe even Galadriel.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 3:03 am to Scoob
quote:
Sauron is an immortal being
He’s dead at the end of the Lord of the Rings, correct? Even his master is eventually killed.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 5:43 am to Froman
quote:
He’s dead at the end of the Lord of the Rings, correct? Even his master is eventually killed.
No. He’s an immortal Maia. His spirit is diminished and he no longer has the power to return after the destruction of the ring. And Morgoth was chained and thrown into the void after his defeat to await the last battle and the destruction and remaking of Arda. Turin will finally kill Morgoth at the end.
More or less.
This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 5:44 am
Posted on 2/2/23 at 5:50 am to Froman
quote:
He’s dead at the end of the Lord of the Rings, correct?
Had he not tied himself to the rings, put himself into them, he could not have been destroyed. And even then, he’s not really dead, just diminished into nearly nothingness, just a vague spirit of malice that can’t take shape.
quote:
Even his master is eventually killed.
Morgoth was not killed. He was taken prisoner by the other Valar. Despite the war of the elves and men on him, they never had a chance to kill him. He remains imprisoned in the void beyond the world, and it is said he will return at the end of the ages.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 6:09 am to rileytiger
quote:That wouldn't matter...
The Emperor Has the Death Star to blow up Middle Earth and they have better firepower (tie fighters, lasers, Atats and Star destroyer) to take out their armies too.
if you dig into Tolkien some (read the Silmarillion), you learn that the Ainur constructed the physical universe (Eä), of which Arda (the world, or what we call the Earth) is merely one planet.
Sauron is one of the Ainur, initially of Aulë's people. So he's involved with the development of matter.
These beings nerf themselves to interact with Elves and Men, because they have a desire to interact with and guide/control/rule them. Morgoth and Sauron don't outright destroy Arda because they want it for themselves. But beings of that level have Death Star abilities intrinsic with their own beings, not reliant on technology.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 7:20 am to rileytiger
Darth Sidious in the novel is much stronger in than the movies. I think but I could be wrong he created a force storm in space that was was like a black hole and consumed thousands of ships.
What makes him so dangerous is that he is very cunning and is a master at manipulation. That could be trouble for many LOTR characters.
What makes him so dangerous is that he is very cunning and is a master at manipulation. That could be trouble for many LOTR characters.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 7:50 am to Scoob
quote:
Who else do you nominate for consideration?
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:14 am to Scoob
quote:
Sauron is an immortal being that existed before the creation of Arda (the universe), and actually participated in the building of it.
Palpatine, like the Witch King, is an ambitious mortal that sought to acquire great power, by tapping into dark forces. The Witch King draws from his Ring, and by extension Sauron. Palpatine draws from the Dark Side of the Force, which, if you tried to put into the same universe as Tolkien, might well be considered Morgoth's essence.
Is all of this information on Sauron in the books? I tried to start Fellowship in HS but I already saw the movies and didn't make it very far. These details interest me.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:08 am to MRF
quote:
Had he not tied himself to the rings, put himself into them,
Why did he do that?
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:23 am to biglego
quote:
Why did he do that?
Mostly in order to control the other rings and by extension the elves, men, and dwarves (even through he couldn’t really control dwarves in the same way because of their sturdy nature). He had tried and failed a couple of times already to subjugate middle earth. But by means of the ring and the subordinate rings, he would have been able to enslave all the races.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:26 am to Scoob
quote:
Who else do you nominate for consideration?
The Q or the Dowd.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:27 am to Philzilla
quote:
Turin will finally kill Morgoth at the end.
In some writings. This and the rest of the end times was never really finalized by Tolkien. It is not clear whether this prophecy should be treated as legitimate or just a myth developed by men.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:29 am to Scoob
One thing that I never really understood about Palpatine & Vader.
Why didn't Palpatine just let Vader die on Mustafar, and just clone him so he would have an in tact version of Anakin to do his bidding?
Why didn't Palpatine just let Vader die on Mustafar, and just clone him so he would have an in tact version of Anakin to do his bidding?
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