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Posted on 12/1/14 at 4:31 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:not understanding the bootstrap time paradox does not mean you dont understand the bulk of the movie and the normal movie goer isnt going to get hung up on it. normal movie goers tend to just enjoy the ride. its people like us that discuss the ideas more intently that might have trouble wrapping out minds around certain aspects
a movie shouldn't have to rely on outside sources to "make it work." If your normal movie-goer (or even one less dumbed down than that) can't walk away from the movie understanding the bulk of it,
quote:bc a bootstrap paradox makes this movie fall flat? I disagree. i pointed you towards the books to help you could find some solace. But either way it seems you are getting hung up on something that to me is insignificant to the story, especially for a movie that is science fiction. two pages ago this was you:
The fact that you are referencing me to books and other material sort of helps my argument that the movie itself fell flat.
quote:
The whole paradox thing was quite a jump for me,
quote:
the whole paradox thing bugged the shite out of me
quote:
But the paradox created is definitely a huge problem for me
quote:
But the bottom line is that "we" never evolve into those beings that save "us" in the movie if that wormhole isn't put there, so the fact that it was put there by "us" doesn't make sense within the framework of the movie.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 4:37 pm to jeff5891
quote:Pretty much
bc a bootstrap paradox makes this movie fall flat?
Posted on 12/1/14 at 4:44 pm to jeff5891
quote:
not understanding the bootstrap time paradox does not mean you dont understand the bulk of the movie and the normal movie goer isnt going to get hung up on it. normal movie goers tend to just enjoy the ride. its people like us that discuss the ideas more intently that might have trouble wrapping out minds around certain aspects
I shouldn't have said bulk of the movie. But certainly the main part (the end/solution/third act).
ETA: and insignificant to you, but pretty important for me. You're acting like I'm getting hung up on some small, minute detail. And that's not even close to true.
This post was edited on 12/1/14 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 12/1/14 at 4:44 pm to AlxTgr
quote:a paradox that is explained as possible by someone who designed the framework of the script?
Pretty much
if thats your only reason for thinking a science fiction film fell flat, then thats a pretty awful one.
. I understand some of the other problems people have with movie but this is nit picky as frick edit: im not saying this is cocomo's only reason
This post was edited on 12/1/14 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 12/1/14 at 4:56 pm to jeff5891
quote:It's not possible
a paradox that is explained as possible by someone who designed the framework of the script?
quote:It's the whole movie really.
if thats your only reason for stating a science fiction film fell flat, then thats a pretty awful one.
quote:You are crazy
I understand some of the other problems people have with movie but this is nit picky as frick
Posted on 12/1/14 at 4:56 pm to Volvagia
quote:
I was commenting as to your assertion that if humanity survives anyway, it removes the point of the film.
It doesn't.
I dont word stuff right. That's not what I was trying to say. And even though I've seen the movie twice, I literally have a hole in my head so my memory is horrendous. I should probably step away from this thread.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 5:25 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:well me pointing you to a book that explains should help you.
You're acting like I'm getting hung up on some small, minute detail. And that's not even close to true.
what did you think of Time Dilation? It was a central aspect to the framework and motivations for this film. Do you only accept that one bc its a theory that been discussed since Einstein? If you do accept it, why not the possibility that a bootstrap paradox is possible? bc its a new theory that you havent read yet?
can you see where I'm going with this line of questioning? This post was edited on 12/1/14 at 5:44 pm
Posted on 12/1/14 at 6:34 pm to jeff5891
This thread will never end.
Posted on 12/1/14 at 7:28 pm to abellsujr
Well cocomo just joined it
At least we aren't talking about the wormhole being open or closed
At least we aren't talking about the wormhole being open or closed
This post was edited on 12/1/14 at 7:28 pm
Posted on 12/5/14 at 12:12 pm to jeff5891
Well, I saw the movie for a second time in IMAX and I can say without a doubt this movie was great. It was significantly better than the first viewing and my post earlier in this thread is now irrelevant.
The story is pretty lock tight and filled with foreshadowing and the overarching theme is what humanity is and should strive to be. I really didn't have a problem w the ending this time around. I watched it with less focus on the science and more attention to the story and score. Things were easier to pick up on especially small seemingly unimportant dialogue that actually was important.
As far as the chicken vs egg argument I think it doesn't really matter because our current framework of time and dimensions is currently inconceivable due to our current limitations.
Beings in the future, even separate beings, could have easily placed the wormhole and built the tesseract once we were ready for the next step of human evolution. But they needed us to make the step and save ourselves. They placed MM in a specific tesseract for him so that we could communicate w ourselves. He says as much in the film. So the others gave us a framework with which to help ourselves, but we had to figure out how and when. Therefore, humanity has saved itself.
Eta-commas, typos correction.
The story is pretty lock tight and filled with foreshadowing and the overarching theme is what humanity is and should strive to be. I really didn't have a problem w the ending this time around. I watched it with less focus on the science and more attention to the story and score. Things were easier to pick up on especially small seemingly unimportant dialogue that actually was important.
As far as the chicken vs egg argument I think it doesn't really matter because our current framework of time and dimensions is currently inconceivable due to our current limitations.
Beings in the future, even separate beings, could have easily placed the wormhole and built the tesseract once we were ready for the next step of human evolution. But they needed us to make the step and save ourselves. They placed MM in a specific tesseract for him so that we could communicate w ourselves. He says as much in the film. So the others gave us a framework with which to help ourselves, but we had to figure out how and when. Therefore, humanity has saved itself.
Eta-commas, typos correction.
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 7:42 pm
Posted on 12/5/14 at 12:16 pm to jeff5891
Why do people have a problem with the bootstrap paradox in this film but not the one found in The Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgement Day?
It's science fiction. Science fiction writers and filmmakers have been using the bootstrap paradox in their work for a very long time.
It's science fiction. Science fiction writers and filmmakers have been using the bootstrap paradox in their work for a very long time.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 8:12 pm to RollTide1987
Saw it this weekend finally.
It was amazing. Really, really good movie. I loved the slow pacing and tension in every scene.
One of the best movies I have seen in some time.
It was amazing. Really, really good movie. I loved the slow pacing and tension in every scene.
One of the best movies I have seen in some time.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 8:28 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Why do people have a problem with the bootstrap paradox in this film but not the one found in The Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgement Day?
because some people always need something to bitch about.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 8:32 pm to 0jersey
I've seen it twice already and for the last 2 weeks it has taken every ounce of self-control and restraint not to go see it a third time.
Posted on 12/6/14 at 9:39 pm to smash williams
quote:
I've seen it twice already and for the last 2 weeks it has taken every ounce of self-control and restraint not to go see it a third time.
Same here. x2 and I'd see it a third.
Posted on 12/7/14 at 7:41 am to meeple
quote:
Same here. x2 and I'd see it a third.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:55 am to RollTide1987
Saw it again this weekend for the second time. The issue with the bootstrap paradox is the same paradox as the event horizon of the blackhole. You cannot know what is on the other side until you cross it. Everyone's problem with the paradox assumes they're watching the first sequence, when in fact we don't know that.
Think about the concept of "Edge of Tomorrow." Reliving the same day but with knowledge of the former days, as Cruise's character does in the movie. Well back to Interstellar, you assume it is a paradox because you assume it is the first sequence. I submit it may not be the first sequence. We do not know what initially prompted Cooper to make the trip. Once in the tesserac he is interacting with past present dynamics. He was on a time line where he sent a message to his self from the future. Think of the movie "Looper" where your past self kills your future self. Well if you were to go back in time and change things you have new time line.
So in this case, let's say that Cooper gets an invite in the first sequence because he is the best pilot in the history of NASA. The first invite in the first sequence is later in the time sequence and was adjusted by Cooper himself. Did you not find it strange that Cooper was off the grid for NASA? Maybe he is not off the grid. Think drones. Why are 10 year old drones flying by Cooper's place? Maybe NASA is keeping tabs on Cooper. In the first sequence Cooper is brought on later in the time sequence. Let's say after it is too late to save humanity. The other's give Cooper the same opportunity to communicate through the terresac with his past self. Believing it is too late he tries to change history by getting on a path and mission much sooner. Keep in mind it is really Murphey they need to solve the issue with gravity.
Now we are watching the events of the adjusted sequence, because Cooper has gone to the terresac before but under a different linear timeline sequences. Think Murphey's Law, whatever can happen will happen.
I have new insight to fix the ending as well but let's deal with the bootstrap paradox first.
Think about the concept of "Edge of Tomorrow." Reliving the same day but with knowledge of the former days, as Cruise's character does in the movie. Well back to Interstellar, you assume it is a paradox because you assume it is the first sequence. I submit it may not be the first sequence. We do not know what initially prompted Cooper to make the trip. Once in the tesserac he is interacting with past present dynamics. He was on a time line where he sent a message to his self from the future. Think of the movie "Looper" where your past self kills your future self. Well if you were to go back in time and change things you have new time line.
So in this case, let's say that Cooper gets an invite in the first sequence because he is the best pilot in the history of NASA. The first invite in the first sequence is later in the time sequence and was adjusted by Cooper himself. Did you not find it strange that Cooper was off the grid for NASA? Maybe he is not off the grid. Think drones. Why are 10 year old drones flying by Cooper's place? Maybe NASA is keeping tabs on Cooper. In the first sequence Cooper is brought on later in the time sequence. Let's say after it is too late to save humanity. The other's give Cooper the same opportunity to communicate through the terresac with his past self. Believing it is too late he tries to change history by getting on a path and mission much sooner. Keep in mind it is really Murphey they need to solve the issue with gravity.
Now we are watching the events of the adjusted sequence, because Cooper has gone to the terresac before but under a different linear timeline sequences. Think Murphey's Law, whatever can happen will happen.
I have new insight to fix the ending as well but let's deal with the bootstrap paradox first.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 10:05 am to RollTide1987
quote:Because it's Terminator. It's just as ridiculous, but much easier to simply ignore. It's not at all necessary to the plot. They could have sent anyone back. In Interstellar, the whole movie depends on it.
Why do people have a problem with the bootstrap paradox in this film but not the one found in The Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgement Day?
Posted on 12/8/14 at 10:10 am to AlxTgr
/\
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I just addressed your concerns.
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I just addressed your concerns.
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