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TED talk on the Wars of the Roses, which inspired GoT
Posted on 5/12/15 at 7:55 am
Posted on 5/12/15 at 7:55 am
Posted on 5/12/15 at 7:56 am to Jim Rockford
That title gave me a nerd boner
Love a good ted talk. Will check it out soon
Love a good ted talk. Will check it out soon
Posted on 5/12/15 at 8:12 am to Jim Rockford
Yep. GRRM also drew a lot of inspiration from Arthurian Literature.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 8:43 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
Yep. GRRM also drew a lot of inspiration from Arthurian Literature.
You need to go through an entire English curriculum to find all the literature GRRM ripped off for GOTs
And I don't mean that as a dis, it's a beautiful thing how he's woven all of those stories and themes together.and create this whole world that allows you to dive into.
It's a more eloquent version of me as a kid playing "Batman-Jussaic Park-StarWars" around the neighborhood
Posted on 5/12/15 at 8:51 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
And I don't mean that as a dis, it's a beautiful thing how he's woven all of those stories and themes together.and create this whole world that allows you to dive into.
I do enjoy it, though he was pretty blatant regarding the War of the Roses. In real life, it was York vs Lancaster. In the book, it is Stark vs Lannister. The Lancasters won, though it was a junior branch of the family - Tudor. I have tried to see if I could suss out the ultimate victor in the Game of Thrones based on the War of the Roses, but the real War of the Roses did not have a Targaryen equivalent throwing a wrench in the whole thing.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 8:57 am to LeonPhelps
I don't think he's out to tell a re telling of the war of roses
That was the starting point. Where it ends and where it has come since the beginning it where he made it his own.
Although by the way he has struggle to finish the books, he may have bitten off more than he can chew. He's got part A and part C down, it's getting from A to C that he's having issue with
Which is a common problem of course
That was the starting point. Where it ends and where it has come since the beginning it where he made it his own.
Although by the way he has struggle to finish the books, he may have bitten off more than he can chew. He's got part A and part C down, it's getting from A to C that he's having issue with
Which is a common problem of course
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 8:58 am
Posted on 5/12/15 at 8:59 am to LeonPhelps
quote:
Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.
ETA: John Snow knows something.
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 9:11 am
Posted on 5/12/15 at 9:07 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Although by the way he has struggle to finish the books, he may have bitten off more than he can chew. He's got part A and part C down, it's getting from A to C that he's having issue with
I have witnessed two very different writing processes in these highly successful fantasy writers. Robert Jordan, who wrote the Wheel of Time series, spent 10 years creating very detailed outlines of exactly what he wanted to happen. The detailed outline and reams of notes made it much easier for Brandon Sanderson to complete the series when he died.
GRRM, on the other hand, is much less structured. Like you said, he know what he wants to happen but doesn't know how to get there. He does not have a detailed outline of exactly what he wants to do. He starts writing and tries to figure it out as he writes. As a result, he wrote himself into a corner with Mereen in book 5. He even called it the Mereenese Knot. So if he dies before finishing, it will be much tougher for someone else to pick it up and finish as he intended.
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 9:08 am
Posted on 5/12/15 at 9:15 am to LeonPhelps
I think the show has cut out a lot of that; which one could see as being a bad thing, but they have certainly put themselves in the position of finishing things cleanly, if GRRM doesn't make it to the finish line
Book wise? Just get a group of your finest crackpot realists and come up with the finish, those guys are insane
Book wise? Just get a group of your finest crackpot realists and come up with the finish, those guys are insane
Posted on 5/12/15 at 9:17 am to Jim Rockford
Tywin Lannister is based, mainly, on Richard Neville, the 16th Earl of Warwick (22 November 1428 – 14 April 1471) - who was known for that period as "The Kingmaker". Ironically, he backed the Yorks (Starks), after originally backing the Lancaster (Lannister) King Henry VI - which is a twist Martin made to tell a better story.
Ned is loosely based on Richard of York, with elements of Richard III, Richard III's friend Francis Lovell and William Hastings thrown in.
Ned is loosely based on Richard of York, with elements of Richard III, Richard III's friend Francis Lovell and William Hastings thrown in.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 9:26 am to LeonPhelps
quote:
War of the Roses did not have a Targaryen equivalent throwing a wrench in the whole thing.
Just think of the Scottish. That stuff kinda mirrors the stuff that happened a little later down the road.
I have strong opinions on this show mirroring history but no one wants to hear it.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 9:32 am to LeonPhelps
quote:
the real War of the Roses did not have a Targaryen equivalent throwing a wrench in the whole thing.
That's just a little mixing up of the history to keep it interesting. The Targaryens are clearly the Norman invaders from the 11th Century. The "Andals" and the First Men are most likely the Germanic tribes - the Angles (from which the nation "England" and language "English" takes their names), Saxons and Jutes, as well as the Danes and the residue of the Roman occupation.
The Children of the Forest are most likely a mystical version of the primitives encountered by the early invaders, the pre-Roman British tribes, and/or a mystical version of some Celtic tribes.
That's just me spitballing. Obviously some things line up, while others do not. The Wall is Hadrian's Wall. Beyond the Wall is Scotland. It does not appear that Wales has a direct analogue (although some parallels with Dorne) - Dorne is a rotated Devon and Cornwall, but the folks are more exotic and Mediterranean than plain country farmers.
King's Landing is London. Winterfell is York. Some are obvious - others more subtle.
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 9:38 am
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:06 am to Ace Midnight
Who are the White Walkers?
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:18 am to CadesCove
Pissed off dead things.
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 11:19 am
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:24 am to CadesCove
I absolutely see the parallels. It goes beyond the War of the Roses as well to the later Tudor monarchs. I've said for quite some time that I see Daenerys as Queen Elizabeth I. The similarities between the two are pretty remarkable:
1. Raised in exile without mothers
2. "Last" of their lines
3. Surrounded themselves with strong counselors and advisors
4. Had contentious relationships with siblings
5. Considered "pretenders" to the throne
6. Survived multiple assassination attempts
7. Received much criticism throughout their careers for not being strong enough (or being too cruel)
1. Raised in exile without mothers
2. "Last" of their lines
3. Surrounded themselves with strong counselors and advisors
4. Had contentious relationships with siblings
5. Considered "pretenders" to the throne
6. Survived multiple assassination attempts
7. Received much criticism throughout their careers for not being strong enough (or being too cruel)
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:58 pm to MardiGrasRazorback
quote:
I've said for quite some time that I see Daenerys as Queen Elizabeth I.
I agree with some individual parallels, but Dany appears to lead Westeros' version of House Stuart - the King/Queen "Across the Water" - which followed Elizabeth I and the Tudors.
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