re: Official Dark Knight Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Two-face is going to be in the next one. He may not be the main villain but there's no way CN would waste the two-face character like that. What, a few killings, 1-2 days as a "batman villain", and he's dead? no way.

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Die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain"

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And was it just me, or was that line out of context of the overall line of thought in his little speech there.

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And was it just me, or was that line out of context of the overall line of thought in his little speech there.

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He was talking about Caesar. Didn't seem out of context to me.

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I truly believe he's dead. "Die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain" In the eyes of Gotham he died a hero, in truth he became the villain.

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harvey dent died a hero, not 2 face.

Haven't read all of the thread, since I just got back from vacation, but I'll give my impressions:

I went in with super-high expectations, and although the film did not pass them, it did meet them. It was engaging, thought-provoking, and rather interesting. Ledger's performance was great, not set to call it award-worthy though. Bale was workman-like, if not unspectacular, as would be the case in a movie more about a "side" character. Oldman was solid, Gyllenhal was surprisingly good, and the rest of the cast served it's purpose.

I was ok with some of the contrived plot-points and the chances needed for the Joker's plan tow ork, they were just so much fun it didn't matter. Plus, it still is a comic book. I loved where Nolan took the character and the franchise, the ending was fantastic.

On the other hand, I did have some of the same qualms that I had with Begins.

1) Action Scenes - Still too-disorienting, although a step-up from Begins. The last fight scene was filmed well, but sometimes it was just all-over the place, especially with what it was trying to do.

2) The editing - Call me crazy, but Nolan must somehow effect the editing room. Every movie he has shot outside of Memento has had some questionable editing. And Memento, by structure alone, created different problems that were seemingly easier to tackle for him.

In this film, sometimes the editing was brilliant (both the first heist and the cops-searching the banks/with the narration from Oldman). And sometimes it was just plain crappy, (the hospital/hunt for Reece and early-beginning). I've seen the same missteps in pacing and structure from Begins, Insomnia and even the Prestige (although slight).

Overall, it was extremely solid, worth multiple viewings, and real. It brought the super-hero genre into another light, as it's even hard to classify the film as such. 9.5/10 for me.

Now with that said, here's my take on the ending...


SPOILERS



















I go back and forth between Dent's death. If we look to the comic books, Batman's three most important villains are probably The Joker, Two-Face and (in recent times) Ras Al Ghul.

Joker isn't dead obviously, but they have to have the perfect actor at the perfect time to bring him back. I expect possibly to see him interviewed/"talked to" by Batman in the shadows maybe in other films because he can't be an absent figure, but unless Ledger has a clone, it'll be tough to reconcile this one visually.

Having used them all quite early, and with a limited supply of "realistic" villains to choose from, and with the Joker complications, Two-Face or Ras have to make a comeback AT SOME POINT. Not necessarily the next film, but at some point. I tend to think Dent has a higher chance of being alive than Al-Ghul, so my opinion is that Dent is alive, in Arkham and he'll make a comeback in three or four after Gotham has forgotten about him so that his impact is not completely lost (the only major point for his death).

What does that mean further?

Nolan will probably take a film off between this and three. I would also hope that he considers the LOTR-method and films 3 and 4 at the same time.

As far as villains, there are so few left that you could actually use. Riddler and Bane should be the top considerations, with Poison Ivy, Black Mask, Hush (which could include Riddler), Ventriloquist/Scarface could get a look.

I don't want Nolan to touch Catwoman or Penguin, yuck. And great villains like Clayface and Killer Croc are off limits.

I do think that Nolan could find a way for Mr. Freeze to work, but that depends on erasing the memories of everyone who has seen Batman & Robin. It would be a hard-sell, but I have thought of multiple ways it could be done.

Great movie, a lot of potential, but I don't expect more than 2 more movies from this creative team.

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I think it is award-worthy. I thought it was amazing. I felt Ledger did a great job of completely removing himself from the character.

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Not a bad performance by any stretch. But I wouldn't make that proclamation at this point unless the performance was hands-down brilliant. I have yet to see a truly great performance this year, and fall is Oscar season anyways, so lots of movies left for the year.

None I would consider "award-worthy" seeing as I couldn't even think of 5, but I would best performances by an actor so far

Roth in Funny Games
Ejiofor in Redbelt
Ledger in DK

I give the edge to Ejiofor out of those, was a fantastic movie that was squarely on his shoulders.

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As far as villians, I don't know. I was under the impression that Dent/Two-Face was dead, but isn't Eckert signed on for the next movie? What about Nolan?

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I don't know if Eckhart is, but Nolan was on for 3. That's weird because most people I talk to assume Dent is dead, only people who know Batman outside of the movies consider him still alive.

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Would Scarecrow play another part in the next movie? (I know this would be redundant) What was the purpose of having him captured like someother 2-bit crook in TDK? It seemed out of place.

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I feel he'll make another appearance, but with a movie that has such a large returning cast, new blood has to come from somewhere. Crane won't be a major villain, maybe a side-villain again. I would like to see him get a better role in the films, he's an under-utilized actor.