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re: Most controversial movie of all time just started on VH-1
Posted on 10/17/14 at 1:21 pm to NATidefan
Posted on 10/17/14 at 1:21 pm to NATidefan
Dottie hit the winning run over Kit's head.
Beating her twice would've ended Kit's career and she probably would've killed herself.
Dottie also caught the ball firmly in her glove before contact. What was the point of transferring it to her non glove hand unless it was to drop it on purpose?
Beating her twice would've ended Kit's career and she probably would've killed herself.
Dottie also caught the ball firmly in her glove before contact. What was the point of transferring it to her non glove hand unless it was to drop it on purpose?
This post was edited on 10/17/14 at 1:23 pm
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Posted on 10/17/14 at 1:23 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
So again, psychological motives and subjective observations of looks the coach and Dottie gave one another to support their position.
It has nothing to do with psychology or subjective observation and everything to do with storytelling the narrative, which only support one outcome.
Because...
quote:
People WANT to believe she dropped it on purpose based on inferences and emotional interpretations is what I see.
People want to believe that everyone loves sports. That everyone puts winning above everything else. That every game MUST, beyond all reasonable doubt, REQUIRE that everyone gives 100%, 100% of the time. And that any failure to be 100% motivated for the sake of victory means that the entire "game," figurative and literal, is meaningless.
Kit Truthers see no other outcomes except for one based on a 100% FOR THE WIN scenario. To them, winning and trying to win shape their entire experience of the movie, which is funny because that's precisely what the movie is about, that choosing to "let go," (unknown's point) is more important for the Hero of the movie. They literally cannot see past a scenario where someone doesn't want to win. Because then the movie loses all meaning.
Dottie must want to win. She must try to the very end. Life is meaningless without trying to win.
But that's just it, Dottie made a choice that winning wasn't everything to her. That it was more important to someone she loved dearly. She didn't choose to lose, she chose to "not win," and there's a big difference.
quote:
The context and substance don't show that at all.
"Sometimes, you have to let your little brother win."
This post was edited on 10/17/14 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 10/17/14 at 1:29 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
"Sometimes, you have to let your little brother win."
Not responding to all the rest of that on my phone, but this likewise does not indicate she dropped the ball on purpose. I love all these lofty and thought out ideals that motivated Dottie, but not until the moment Kit rounded third...
This post was edited on 10/17/14 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 10/17/14 at 1:29 pm to Freauxzen
The person I feel most sorry for is Hacksaw Jim Duggan. He didnt even get to nail Dottie.
She single handedly returned his faith in baseball, in women, in life. He quit drinking and cared about the game. He even gave up a job coaching AAA to stay on and she lost that game on purpose and he knew it.
She single handedly returned his faith in baseball, in women, in life. He quit drinking and cared about the game. He even gave up a job coaching AAA to stay on and she lost that game on purpose and he knew it.
This post was edited on 10/17/14 at 1:31 pm
Posted on 10/17/14 at 1:34 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
Not responding to all the rest of that on my phone, but this likewise does not indicate she dropped the ball on purpose.
So the director chose to have Dottie whisper this to an unnamed grandson, and they focus in on it and show it, during scenes which are meant to bookend the film and provide context for what you are about to watch and it's meaningless?
The fact that Dottie spends the entire film annihilating her sister, always beating her...constantly reaffirming the idea that she "never let's her sister win," which is an exact parallel to that very comment?
quote:
I love all these lofty and thought out ideals that motivated Dottie, but not until the moment Kit rounded third...
Why is timing and premeditation so important? I never get this. People can make decisions in a short amount of time, this is not deciphering an equation, all this requires is self-realization, sometimes that happens in an instant.
This post was edited on 10/17/14 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 10/17/14 at 1:42 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Why is timing and premeditation so important
Exactly. She knocked the winning run off a pitch thrown by kit right over her head. Then firmly caught the ball at home plate in her glove which would've twice ended Kit's dreams and decided to let her have it instead.
They make a point at 3 different times in the movie to show you how strong Dottie's non glove hand is. And you see her dominate runners at the plate a few times.
This post was edited on 10/17/14 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 10/17/14 at 1:48 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
quote: This. Why go through all that just to drop in on purpose. Why not let the throw fricking go between your legs or some bullshite.
This is inconsequential. There are more than a few reasons to explain why she didn't make that choice earlier.
:lmao:
In other words, this doesn't fit my narrative, so I poo poo it.
Tangible always trumps intangible
That is all I have to say. Good day to everyone else who continues this thread. If rather jack off with a cheese grater.
Posted on 10/17/14 at 1:53 pm to alajones
quote:
:lmao:
In other words, this doesn't fit my narrative, so I poo poo it.
I meant inconsequential to the discussion. If we want to have that conversation:
See unknownknight's comment. The idea to have Dottie catch the ball and go through all the final parts of the film and not choose to fail another way, is clearly to map "letting go" figuratively with "letting go" literally. That's the easy, artistic answer.
Posted on 10/17/14 at 2:26 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
"letting go" figuratively with "letting go" literally.
Now, I'm a Kit Truther, but I accept this is the intended metaphor. Her "letting go" of a baseball is a metaphor for letting go of baseball.
But, she didn't do it on purpose.
A. This robs her manager and teammates who tried so hard to get into and win this game.
B. This robs Kit of a legitimate victory. Nothing is of any real value if it is just given to you and everyone pretends you earned it.
But, that doesn't invalidate the metaphor.
Heck, she doesn't even have to play in the game. She did so as to complete her obligation before resuming her married life with her husband. If she hadn't played in the game, the Peaches get blown out.
Posted on 10/17/14 at 2:58 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Now, I'm a Kit Truther, but I accept this is the intended metaphor. Her "letting go" of a baseball is a metaphor for letting go of baseball.
Now we can have a conversation,
So can we maybe flip the question and not ask whether she dropped it or not on purpose, but...
Did she want to win or not? Was she giving 100% or was she giving 75%? Did she have enough determination left to hold on to the ball?
Basically, is there a way to phrase it that appeases both sides?
Given the comment above, is there an argument to say that maybe it wasn't that she said internally, "I'm going to drop this ball," and instead said "I just don't have the will to hold on to it. For Kit's sake."
Do Kit Truthers require that Dottie was trying her hardest to win?
Posted on 10/17/14 at 3:00 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
This robs her manager and teammates who tried so hard to get into and win this game.
She left them, as the team leader and beat player in the league, before the start of the world series. What makes you think she suddenly cared about them winning?
quote:
This robs Kit of a legitimate victory. Nothing is of any real value if it is just given to you and everyone pretends you earned it.
Well no one but Dottie knew it. Dottie and maybe Hacksaw.
This post was edited on 10/17/14 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 10/17/14 at 3:04 pm to Ace Midnight
Also,
It does invalidate the metaphor because if she was beat, and she was trying to win, then it wasn't a choice. It wasn't a sacrifice.
Also, Jimmy understood. The Team? Kit? They are catalysts for her journey, one family to the next.
It doesn't rob them of anything because it is about them.
quote:
But, she didn't do it on purpose.
A. This robs her manager and teammates who tried so hard to get into and win this game.
B. This robs Kit of a legitimate victory. Nothing is of any real value if it is just given to you and everyone pretends you earned it.
But, that doesn't invalidate the metaphor.
It does invalidate the metaphor because if she was beat, and she was trying to win, then it wasn't a choice. It wasn't a sacrifice.
Also, Jimmy understood. The Team? Kit? They are catalysts for her journey, one family to the next.
It doesn't rob them of anything because it is about them.
This post was edited on 10/17/14 at 3:35 pm
Posted on 10/17/14 at 3:30 pm to Freauxzen
Just wanted to let y'all know that a doctor I work with believes that she dropped it on purpose. And doctors are smart.
Game Dottie Truthers.
Game Dottie Truthers.
Posted on 10/17/14 at 3:33 pm to Scruffy
Posted on 10/17/14 at 3:35 pm to Pilot Tiger
Avoid the clap - Jimmy Dugan
That's good advice.
That's good advice.
Posted on 10/17/14 at 3:42 pm to Breesus
quote:
Family is more important than baseball.
Not Dottie though, she is the ultimate competitor.
She wants to win at everything she does.
I can't see her dropping it on purpose.
Posted on 10/17/14 at 4:06 pm to CBandits82
This fricking thread again? Jesus you people....... 
Posted on 10/17/14 at 5:13 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Did she want to win or not? Was she giving 100% or was she giving 75%? Did she have enough determination left to hold on to the ball?
If you want to suggest that she wasn't 100% dedicated to winning like she was before her husband came back, and that lack of dedication and will weakened her at that crucial moment at the plate, then that is one thing. But you are suggesting that she WILLFULLY dropped it on purpose. The context and circumstances surrounding that play simply don't support that at all.
quote:
Basically, is there a way to phrase it that appeases both sides?
No. She either did it consciously or not. That's the fundamental argument.
quote:
wasn't that she said internally, "I'm going to drop this ball," and instead said "I just don't have the will to hold on to it. For Kit's sake."
What the motherfrick kind of mental gymnastics is this? It was either a willful, conscious decision or not.
quote:
Do Kit Truthers require that Dottie was trying her hardest to win?
No, we simply suggest that she didn't drop it on purpose intentionally losing the game for her and her team for some bullshite appeasement of her sister. Perhaps she learned AFTER the emotions and learning experience of that moment to mention to her children how important it was to not always go 100% against your sibling when playing around at the house, or having a goddamn speedwalking competition that you refused to go less than 100 in after you had a fantastic game and your sister had a terrible game. Dottie never gave two shits about Kit's feelings of inferiority or simply never realized how much she had unnecessarily contributed to it until after seeing her happiness AFTER that play, hence why she was full speed ahead in Dottie mode in her at bat against kit earlier in the inning AND in Kit's final at bat when she ruthlessly instructed the pitcher on how to strike her out. The reference to her own kids doesn't equal throwing games in real team competitions, it just means going easy on a younger, less talented or matured sibling. That COMPLETELY meshes with the narrative of the film by the way, it's just not the version you choose to embrace.
Dottie ALWAYS had to beat Kit in everything, not just baseball. Going easy on your sibling while dicking around at the house does not equal throwing games in real competition. The fact that people believe that that necessarily has to translate into throwing a game at the highest level of competition, in MOTHERfrickING GAME 7, is simply mind boggling to me.
Posted on 10/17/14 at 5:16 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
People want to believe that everyone loves sports. That everyone puts winning above everything else. That every game MUST, beyond all reasonable doubt, REQUIRE that everyone gives 100%, 100% of the time. And that any failure to be 100% motivated for the sake of victory means that the entire "game," figurative and literal, is meaningless.
Kit Truthers see no other outcomes except for one based on a 100% FOR THE WIN scenario. To them, winning and trying to win shape their entire experience of the movie, which is funny because that's precisely what the movie is about, that choosing to "let go," (unknown's point) is more important for the Hero of the movie. They literally cannot see past a scenario where someone doesn't want to win. Because then the movie loses all meaning.
Dottie must want to win. She must try to the very end. Life is meaningless without trying to win.
But that's just it, Dottie made a choice that winning wasn't everything to her. That it was more important to someone she loved dearly. She didn't choose to lose, she chose to "not win," and there's a big difference.
Now that I'm home, I just want to say that I think most all of this is bullshite.
Posted on 10/17/14 at 5:16 pm to ChewyDante
I agree with you 100%, but you are fighting a losing battle with this crowd. Just ignore these threads and you will be happier.
Ouch, fricking cheese grater hurts.
Ouch, fricking cheese grater hurts.
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