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Message
re: Lone survivor
Posted on 1/7/14 at 7:55 am to Dizz
Posted on 1/7/14 at 7:55 am to Dizz
quote:
it was possibly being prosecuted for war crimes or having the entire op picked apart and them being courtmartialed.
quote:
R.O.E.
Bingo.
These guys, especially SEALS, go through SERE training for a reason, it's for instances like this.
0
Posted on 1/7/14 at 8:23 am to Brosef Stalin
quote:Okay, I laughed.quote:spoiler alert!
Lone survivor
Posted on 1/7/14 at 8:47 am to tigerfan 33
Marcus' Interview
I just started reading the book
Do a youtube search on the guy, there is a bunch of stuff...even actual 911 tapes of when some punks shot & killed his PTSD dog.
I just started reading the book
Do a youtube search on the guy, there is a bunch of stuff...even actual 911 tapes of when some punks shot & killed his PTSD dog.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 9:03 am to Dr. Shultz
quote:
Yeah the part where they didn't just tie them up and keep them there with them didn't make sense.
What do you do with the 100 goats? Tie them up to?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 9:16 am to kengel2
quote:
What do you do with the 100 goats? Tie them up to?
100 goats is a bit of an exaggeration and did you expect the goats to travel down the terrain they were on back to the village, without being lead, and inform the Taliban that the Herders were gone? Honestly if they cared enough they could have killed the goats. I don't think that would be considered a war crime.
It's not like they were going to be there for a week. They were going to kill that guy probably later that night. Tieing 3 herders up for a few hours doesn't seem to hard to do. There only excuse for not doing it was they thought they would freeze to death at night or an animal would come kill them.
This post was edited on 1/7/14 at 9:17 am
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:15 am to Dr. Shultz
quote:
It's not like they were going to be there for a week. They were going to kill that guy probably later that night. Tieing 3 herders up for a few hours doesn't seem to hard to do. There only excuse for not doing it was they thought they would freeze to death at night or an animal would come kill them.
Nope. They were there to gather intel to make sure the head honcho was there. There was to be a joint SOF/Marine raid on the village after Lutrell's team confirmed his location. The operation was fricked from the beginning and they paid dearly for their command's mistake.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:41 am to Dr. Shultz
quote:
100 goats is a bit of an exaggeration
Came straight from Lutrell.
quote:
did you expect the goats to travel down the terrain they were on back to the village, without being lead, and inform the Taliban that the Herders were gone?
Animals will follow the trail regardless if they were lead or not. If no one was guiding them it most certainly would have alarmed the village. Its a village, probably had more goats in that herd than the entire village.
quote:
Honestly if they cared enough they could have killed the goats. I don't think that would be considered a war crime.
Not a war crime, but they were on a recon mission. While Im sure they had enough ammo to carry this out, this would have been a very very very very very very dumb and stupid action.
quote:
It's not like they were going to be there for a week.
They were there to gather intel, who knows how long they could have been out.
quote:
They were going to kill that guy probably later that night.
Nope.
quote:
Tieing 3 herders up for a few hours doesn't seem to hard to do.
Until a herd of goats comes into the village without their shepard.
quote:
There only excuse for not doing it was they thought they would freeze to death at night or an animal would come kill them.
You do know this is afghanistan right? Its not a pretty place and is some ridiculous terrain/climate.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:58 am to kengel2
quote:
Animals will follow the trail regardless if they were lead or not. If no one was guiding them it most certainly would have alarmed the village. Its a village, probably had more goats in that herd than the entire village.
Based on that very instinct the animals would have probably continued to graze before moving back down the mountain, which would have provided vital extra time for the team to evac.
quote:
Not a war crime, but they were on a recon mission. While Im sure they had enough ammo to carry this out, this would have been a very very very very very very dumb and stupid action.
I highly doubt they had enough ammo to take out 100 goats and then be ready to take on any enemy force. Not to mention only two of the men had suppressed weapons, I think sudden machine gun fire popping out up the mountain would have kind of given the game away.
quote:
They were there to gather intel, who knows how long they could have been out.
Based on the comms intervals and typical recon missions they were probably supplied for a 3-4 day OP at the most. They weren't there so much to gather intel as they were to verify previously attained intel in order for the main OP to proceed. They were basically there to ID their target and then relay his position back to the main force.
quote:
Until a herd of goats comes into the village without their shepard.
I bet that would have taken a hell of a lot longer than having one of the tied up kids literally bolt down the mountain to relay the SEALs position. Even one of the SEALs was amazed at how he was able to move around faster than they were in that terrain.
This post was edited on 1/7/14 at 11:01 am
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:35 am to Tom288
As others have said he wasnt concerned with CNN coverage but liberals having them court marshalling for war crimes against the rules of engagement. I read the book and if I remember correctly he said the vote was 1 to 1 and Murphy abstained from voting and said he'd go with the teams decision. ML had the deciding vote and we know how it ended.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:56 am to CHEEEEESE
quote:
As others have said he wasnt concerned with CNN coverage but liberals having them court marshalling for war crimes against the rules of engagement. I read the book and if I remember correctly he said the vote was 1 to 1 and Murphy abstained from voting and said he'd go with the teams decision. ML had the deciding vote and we know how it ended.
I'm not in his shoes but just my two unimportant cents: I don't know what the hell he was thinking worrying about CNN and court-martials when you had 100+ enemies right below you. Does the ROE prevent them from leaving them tied up?
In any case, I'm surprised they even voted. As the team leader I'm not sure why Murphy chose to abstain when he's the one that should have been making the decision, period.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:25 pm to Tom288
Did the movie have anything about the rope from the helicopter being left behind?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:28 pm to Tom288
people can second guess they want but that team made the right decision.
you cant kill a couple of goat herders nor can you just tie them up and leave them to freeze to death.
(that place gets f'in cold at night)
there was no time table on long they were to be there. what would want them to do...
take care of the goats, hope no one notices that the herders are missing.
it was an unforseen variable that wrecked the op, and the team made the right decision.
until you are in the situation and have to make hard decisions on the fly you cant understand the thought process.
it sure is easy for people to quarterback from the lazyboy, but get in the shite and try make a decision like those men and see just how tough it is
you cant kill a couple of goat herders nor can you just tie them up and leave them to freeze to death.
(that place gets f'in cold at night)
there was no time table on long they were to be there. what would want them to do...
take care of the goats, hope no one notices that the herders are missing.
it was an unforseen variable that wrecked the op, and the team made the right decision.
until you are in the situation and have to make hard decisions on the fly you cant understand the thought process.
it sure is easy for people to quarterback from the lazyboy, but get in the shite and try make a decision like those men and see just how tough it is
This post was edited on 1/7/14 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:31 pm to Tom288
quote:
Based on that very instinct the animals would have probably continued to graze before moving back down the mountain, which would have provided vital extra time for the team to evac.
They could have. Or they could have just gone on their way. I dont disagree with you.
quote:
I highly doubt they had enough ammo to take out 100 goats and then be ready to take on any enemy force. Not to mention only two of the men had suppressed weapons, I think sudden machine gun fire popping out up the mountain would have kind of given the game away.
That was my point. Hence the very very very very dumb comment.
quote:
Based on the comms intervals and typical recon missions they were probably supplied for a 3-4 day OP at the most. They weren't there so much to gather intel as they were to verify previously attained intel in order for the main OP to proceed. They were basically there to ID their target and then relay his position back to the main force.
Cool, I know MREs would last me more than 1 day. I could probably get 3 days out of 2 of them. Im going off my own experiences.
quote:
I bet that would have taken a hell of a lot longer than having one of the tied up kids literally bolt down the mountain to relay the SEALs position. Even one of the SEALs was amazed at how he was able to move around faster than they were in that terrain.
Well thats where they live, ask a fat kid here where the nearest mcdonalds is and theyll probably get there quicker.
Im just saying that no matter how long it took for the goats to get there, no one would be leading and that would cause concern from the village.Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:38 pm to icemaverick
This is a moot point but they shouldn't have even been on the op. And if they were on the op the helo should have dropped them off much further from their planned OP, not 1 mile from the village. Ahmed Shah new they were in the area and was looking for them. SOCOM's hubris got those men killed and also 16 SOCOM operators sent into to rescue them.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 1:13 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Did the movie have anything about the rope from the helicopter being left behind?
I don't remember anything about that in the movie. Can you explain what happened?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 1:16 pm to LST
jesus you guys will pick apart anything
terrific movie, great story, great person in Marcus
god bless 'merica
terrific movie, great story, great person in Marcus
god bless 'merica
Posted on 1/7/14 at 1:23 pm to LST
quote:
I don't remember anything about that in the movie. Can you explain what happened?
The helicopter crew chief kicked the rope they used to fast rope down out of the helicopter after they inserted. This was SOP for the NightStalkers when they conducted hard hitting raids so they could get out as fast as possible without taking the time to pull the rope back in. This was a clandestine insertion but the crew chief went back on his training and kicked it out. When the crew got back to base they realized what they had done and relayed to the SEAL team that the rope was still on the ground. Not wanting the rope laying on the ground to give them away they went back to hide it. After they hid and headed back to their OP they were discovered by the goat herder.
There may be a couple of details wrong in my story there but that's the gist of it IIRC.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 2:12 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
There may be a couple of details wrong in my story there but that's the gist of it IIRC.
That definitely wasn't in the movie.
The movie was awesome. Pretty intense throughout and just completely engaging. Even mark Wahlberg was solid in it, and I don't like him at all really.
I haven't read the book...did the whole "Chinook getting taken out by an RPG" happen IRL? Or was that added as Hollywood fluffer? I thought it was fluff until the end of the movie when they had pics of everyone that had died on that mission, and there seemed to be enough to fill a chopper.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 2:16 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
I haven't read the book...did the whole "Chinook getting taken out by an RPG" happen IRL?
Yes. It was the rescue team sent in to find Marcus' team. They were shot down while trying to land. I think 16 SEALs and helo crewman were killed.
This post was edited on 1/7/14 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 1/7/14 at 2:18 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
That definitely wasn't in the movie.
Probably didn't want to paint anyone in particular in a bad light. But like I said before, the SOCOM command's hubris is what doomed that mission.
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