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re: Letterman Final Show Thread
Posted on 5/21/15 at 9:12 pm to BilJ
Posted on 5/21/15 at 9:12 pm to BilJ
I remember thinking Conan was going to struggle at 10:30. My parents still watched Leno and I knew Conan would immediately lose that demographic. NBC should've given him more time and having Leno's terrible variety show on every night did Conan no favors. It was just a poorly managed situation. Remember, Jay struggled his first few years on The Tonight Show.
Would've been an interesting dynamic had Dave gotten The Tonight Show and Jay had to do his own show. Would Carson's crowd stuck with Dave? There definitely would've been more of a passing of the torch unlike Jay, who didn't even mention Johnny's name on his first Tonight Show.
Would've been an interesting dynamic had Dave gotten The Tonight Show and Jay had to do his own show. Would Carson's crowd stuck with Dave? There definitely would've been more of a passing of the torch unlike Jay, who didn't even mention Johnny's name on his first Tonight Show.
1
Posted on 5/21/15 at 10:01 pm to The Boat
quote:Very much so. I think late night popularity and ratings is a lot like running for President, and the old people tend to bloc vote, so they like someone who makes them laugh but won't offend them. That group never liked Letterman's gap teeth and obnoxious personality, and I think that's what made NBC pick Leno.
And the old fart demographic is why Conan didn't work hosting the Tonight Show. Conan was a lot like young Dave.
quote:Yeah, bland humor pays, but I would never have tuned in for Hope and I gave even less of a shite about Leno.
So was Bob Hope. And he was the most beloved stand-up comic who ever lived. Leno modeled his style after him.
quote:Again, old people. Letterman lost the youth when he got old but never gained old people because he was still obnoxious Dave.
His finale even drew in fewer viewers then Leno's finale and that was with A-list star power at Letterman's command. But despite his largest audience since 1994, Letterman still couldn't beat Leno.
He was 10 times funnier than Leno regardless of rating, even when he got old.
This post was edited on 5/21/15 at 10:03 pm
Posted on 5/21/15 at 11:21 pm to FairhopeTider
quote:
Would Carson's crowd stuck with Dave? There definitely would've been more of a passing of the torch unlike Jay, who didn't even mention Johnny's name on his first Tonight Show.
How on earth does anyone think that Johnny's fans and Dave's fans are even in the same ballpark?
People keep mentioning it here and in articles that Dave was "owed" the Tonight Show. How and Why? His brand of humor and disposition was so different from Carson's that it would have made a million Life Alerts go bat shite crazy.
This post was edited on 5/21/15 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 5/22/15 at 12:32 am to NWarty
quote:
How on earth does anyone think that Johnny's fans and Dave's fans are even in the same ballpark?
People keep mentioning it here and in articles that Dave was "owed" the Tonight Show. How and Why? His brand of humor and disposition was so different from Carson's that it would have made a million Life Alerts go bat shite crazy.
I swear, some of y'all just want to argue for the sake of it.
Nobody says that they were the same, but Dave had put in 10 years with Late Night and he is who Carson wanted as a replacement. He and Johnny didn't have the same brand of comedy. My point was at the time, there were no alternatives...it was only The Tonight Show. If Dave had been picked, it would've been a smoother transition and Jay Leno, who had no built-in fanbase or established show, would've had to go to another network and start something new like Letterman did. The Tonight Show had a great brand recognition as well and was a huge television staple. So its not that far off to question if some of Carson's crowd might hang around for awhile with Dave simply because there weren't many other options.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 2:40 am to FairhopeTider
The problem was, like or hate Leno or Dave or both -- and I had little more than endless apathy for both of them -- the NBC suits made the correct decision. Not because of subjective opinions about which one was funnier, or which one was the better host, but because Leno eventually won out in the ratings. People forget all the ferocious competition for late night audiences back then -- the list of people who tried and failed reads like a who's who of 80s and 90s B-list celebrities -- so the NBC execs weren't just looking to hopefully hold some of Carson's audience with Letterman. They were hoping to keep the status quo, to fend off all the new names with their classic, generic appeal. They wanted that solid flyover-state appeal that ensured they didn't have to worry about growing stale...because they had already achieved the perfect amount of staleness. It's the same reason Joan Rivers would never have gotten the nod (and for people who say Carson wouldn't have allowed it, well...he wouldn't have allowed Leno either, had he been given the final say)
And what really hits home here is that Leno was actually the perfect choice in a rapidly changing world where the demographics of late night TV would veer even more away from the younger audience as the Internet and other distractions took prominence. Letterman (and Conan) appealed to a younger demo. They could get audiences but it was Leno safe, unoffensive schtick that fit the typical audience for the time slot. That's why Fallon has maintained the ratings, and why Colbert isn't quite the slam-dunk some people think he is despite the fact that he can be funnier than Leno, Letterman, and Conan combined.
It is what it is, y'know?
(Incidentally, the only one of these shows I've watched other than in random Internet clips in recent years is Ferguson. I've watched two of his shows. He was brilliant. And utterly unsuited for "The Tonight Show.")
And what really hits home here is that Leno was actually the perfect choice in a rapidly changing world where the demographics of late night TV would veer even more away from the younger audience as the Internet and other distractions took prominence. Letterman (and Conan) appealed to a younger demo. They could get audiences but it was Leno safe, unoffensive schtick that fit the typical audience for the time slot. That's why Fallon has maintained the ratings, and why Colbert isn't quite the slam-dunk some people think he is despite the fact that he can be funnier than Leno, Letterman, and Conan combined.
It is what it is, y'know?
(Incidentally, the only one of these shows I've watched other than in random Internet clips in recent years is Ferguson. I've watched two of his shows. He was brilliant. And utterly unsuited for "The Tonight Show.")
Posted on 5/22/15 at 4:08 am to randomways
Where the hell are the singing cats?
Posted on 5/22/15 at 9:52 am to FairhopeTider
quote:
it would've been a smoother transition and Jay Leno, who had no built-in fanbase or established show, would've had to go to another network and start something new like Letterman did.
But Jay did have a fanbase and established show. He had been the permanent guest host of the Tonight Show for years. He was even putting out books of his "Headlines" segment as far back as the late 80's. NBC knew what type of ratings that Jay might get because he'd been doing the show for years.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 11:07 am to Fewer Kilometers
Did Dave stop being funny when his hair lost its curl? I think that's a good way to look at it.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 3:45 pm to The Boat
quote:
His brand of humor and disposition was so different from Carson's that it would have made a million Life Alerts go bat shite crazy.
This. For some reason people assume that what works at 11:30 Will work at 10:30 when the reality is that those are two different audiences.
Letterman and Conan's style of humor would've never worked with the Tonight Show audience.
They were two legendary late night hosts whose 10:30 shows proved less than stellar.
This post was edited on 5/22/15 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 5/22/15 at 6:13 pm to BulldogXero
I know we aren't supposed to post Facebook stuff, but a guy named Adam Nedeff annotated most of the 500 photos that showed during Foo Fighters' performance of "Everlong"
LINK
LINK
Posted on 5/22/15 at 9:51 pm to BulldogXero
I find it funny that for the last 15 or so years people have been ripping Dave for basically mailing it in, how the show is a shadow of its former self, etc. But now that he's officially hanging it up, "Dave, you're such a legend." For being a late night legend, people sure seemed to do without him fairly easily.
Posted on 5/23/15 at 3:34 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
I find it funny that for the last 15 or so years people have been ripping Dave for basically mailing it in, how the show is a shadow of its former self, etc. But now that he's officially hanging it up, "Dave, you're such a legend." For being a late night legend, people sure seemed to do without him fairly easily.
Well, he probably should've retired 15 years ago.
Posted on 5/23/15 at 8:40 am to BulldogXero
quote:
Well, he probably should've retired 15 years ago.
In a sort of ironic twist, Letterman's show actually improved the last couple of years. A little more low key and, yes, more mature than the early years, but it definitely was better than it had been during the "swoon" of middle CBS period when he was just plain "crotchety". He had become much more engaging with his guests. I realize a lot of people here didn't like his politics, but that's really irrelevant.
Posted on 5/23/15 at 3:44 pm to Kafka
quote:
David Letterman died in 1993
That's not true. I'm watching some shows from the mid 90s when he still had a lot of energy and they're really really funny. Letterman died around the time of his heart surgery which is around when he shaved his head and lost the color and curls.
Posted on 5/23/15 at 3:47 pm to The Boat
quote:
David Letterman died in 1993
quote:
That's not true. I'm watching some shows from the mid 90s when he still had a lot of energy and they're really really funny. Letterman died around the time of his heart surgery which is around when he shaved his head and lost the color and curls.
Yeah, seeing the final montage reminded me how faithfully we had watched his show through the 90's.
Posted on 5/23/15 at 4:53 pm to The Boat
quote:That's exactly where I'd place it. After that, he got a lot more serious and political, and the sex scandal finished him off.
That's not true. I'm watching some shows from the mid 90s when he still had a lot of energy and they're really really funny. Letterman died around the time of his heart surgery which is around when he shaved his head and lost the color and curls.
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