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Kylo Ren (spoilers)
Posted on 12/25/15 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 12/25/15 at 4:58 pm
Did anyone else compare and contrast him with Vader as they watched the movie?
I felt like he was different from Vader in that he was driven more by emotion and anger than just being an evil person simply getting down to business.
At the same time though, I feel like Kylo Ren was what Anakin would have been not he had his face melted off by Obi Wan.
I felt like he was different from Vader in that he was driven more by emotion and anger than just being an evil person simply getting down to business.
At the same time though, I feel like Kylo Ren was what Anakin would have been not he had his face melted off by Obi Wan.
7
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:01 pm to accnodefense
Kylo Ren is a whiny bitch and Vader is a cold blooded killer. And I agree Kylo Ren is basically PT Anakin in Vader gear, instead of being a completely different person once he nearly died and put on the Vader suit
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:02 pm to Upperdecker
quote:
Kylo Ren is a whiny bitch and Vader is a cold blooded killer. And I agree Kylo Ren is basically PT Anakin in Vader gear, instead of being a completely different person once he nearly died and put on the Vader suit
Exactly
Kylo is just a continuation of Anakin, whiny bitch
He hasn't gotten to Vader yet where he is just an emotionless evil being.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:04 pm to accnodefense
quote:
Did anyone else compare and contrast him with Vader as they watched the movie?
Did you read the last 5 pages of the spoiler thread?
Of course we did, but we were meant to. He emulates Vader as much as he can.
Kylo is much closer to Anakin in Ep 3, than he is Vader in the OT, personality wise.
Edit: I wrote this on page 101 of the spoiler thread.
quote:
Beyond his worship of Vader. He wears the mask because it makes him sound more menacing, gives him gravitas and a more fearsome persona. Which in his mind equals respect. Without it he sounded like a young man who has no clue who he truly was. Combined with everything else regarding the character, and it really draws Kylo out in a way we wouldn't see if he were all mask or no mask.
Plus, removing it for Rey really showed his vanity. He became a horny teenage boy for a moment, while convincing himself it would make her trusting. Really liked that scene, a lot of interesting dynamics weaved together in layers.
To expound. He has no emotional control. It's obvious by everyone's reactions that he is not thought of as highly as he thinks. People constantly treat him like a brat you simply endure. Except for Snoke. Who only treats him as a man because it strengthens his influence with Ren. His seeming confidence in Ren has given Kylo something he apparently has always desired.
Similar to Palpatine and Vader.
This post was edited on 12/25/15 at 5:10 pm
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:08 pm to VaBamaMan
quote:
Kylo is much closer to Anakin in Ep 3, than he is Vader in the OT, personality wise.
The thing is that Vader was a cool villian, by cool I mean not someone you rooted for, but respected. I.E. kids want to dress up as him for Halloween
Kylo Ren? Not really, just came across as a whiny girl on her period. What kid will want to be Kylo-Ren for Halloween?
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:13 pm to accnodefense
quote:
Kylo Ren? Not really, just came across as a whiny girl on her period. What kid will want to be Kylo-Ren for Halloween?
The character was still freaking cool. Driver played it very well, and I think he will be more mature in the next film.
We also received more character development from him in this single movie, than Vader in 3.
Lastly, he emulates Vader, but has no clue how to become him. Nor does he have the power.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:14 pm to VaBamaMan
Personality wise, I'd say closer to Anakin in 2 than 3.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:16 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
Yeah....I'll agree with that. Not that there is a ton of difference.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:21 pm to accnodefense
I liked Kylos use of the force. Vader never stopped a laser. But he was a bitch with the light saber. Man he sucked with it.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:24 pm to accnodefense
quote:
Kylo Ren? Not really, just came across as a whiny girl on her period. What kid will want to be Kylo-Ren for Halloween?
Yeah... he wasn't handled very well.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:24 pm to biglego
Well he did lose all his extremities...
Posted on 12/25/15 at 5:25 pm to Esquire
Yeah I guess that explains it 
Posted on 12/25/15 at 6:06 pm to accnodefense
I really liked the character. He's poised to have a terrific story arc for the next two movies.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 6:13 pm to accnodefense
quote:
I felt like he was different from Vader in that he was driven more by emotion and anger than just being an evil person simply getting down to business.
I kind of felt the opposite to a degree about Anakin and similarly towards Kylo/Ben.
Anakin was driven to the dark side through manipulation of his love for Padme and the fear of losing her.
Ben seems more like he is more evil to the roots and wants to become what Vader became after losing everything he held dear. This is shown in his tantrums after receiving bad news and the fact that he killed Han without really much struggle and even toyed with him a bit before. I am sure we will get more backstory behind what drove Ben to where he is now in the next movie but he seems much more emotional and angry than Anakin ever really was without the attachments.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 6:22 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Yeah... he wasn't handled very well.
He was literally handled perfectly.
He was seduced as a teen, and Snoke has encouraged his bad traits. He has not grown up one iota as a human being since that time. Only as a dark force user. Because he is no Sith. Both his comments, and Snoke's, show that to be true. There is no rule of two with them.
As I've said before, look at his scene with Ridley, where he is trying to read her mind. Him taking off his helmet after her insult shows us a ton about the character. His vanity, his arrogance, his shallow thought process, he gives in to whims, he can be bullied and manipulated...etc. That's one layer down from he finds her attractive. Which is one layer down from, he is trying to get her to trust him. All of that from her comment, and his removing the helmet. That scene was incredibly layered beyond the simple top crust layer of, "Oh, Ren is uber powerful in the Force and Kylo is afraid he can't be Vader."
I thought it was masterfully done.
Remember, this the beginning, not the end.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 6:24 pm to VaBamaMan
quote:
He was literally handled perfectly.
He was seduced as a teen, and Snoke has encouraged his bad traits.
Let's talk about things that are actually in the movie.
quote:
As I've said before, look at his scene with Ridley, where he is trying to read her mind. Him taking off his helmet after her insult shows us a ton about the character. His vanity, his arrogance, his shallow thought process, he gives in to whims, he can be bullied and manipulated...etc. That's one layer down from he finds her attractive. Which is one layer down from, he is trying to get her to trust him. All of that from her comment, and his removing the helmet. That scene was incredibly layered beyond the simple top crust layer of, "Oh, Ren is uber powerful in the Force and Kylo is afraid he can't be Vader
By removing his helmet there, you defang Ren. He's no longer a menacing villain. He becomes an indecisive, and somewhat pathetic creature instead.
I suppose they could have used that scene to get us to like him, that would have made the catwalk scene more interesting. Because we might believe, as Han did, that he could be redeemed. That would have added much needed tension to the finale.
Instead we get Han's predictable death.
quote:
Remember, this the beginning, not the end.
Carrying a story over several movies is fine. With that said, each movie should stand on its own.
This post was edited on 12/25/15 at 6:32 pm
Posted on 12/25/15 at 6:28 pm to Warfarer
Kylo is powerful and is unstable, the movie did a wonderful job showing this. For example, in the originals people feared Vader when they made mistakes, but they didn't fear him when they weren't responsible for a screw up, in fact there was a level of respect of his knowledge on all matters. In this movie it seems like everyone except Hux and Snoke fear him because of is instability. They're afraid that whatever they tell him will make him snap.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 6:34 pm to cssamerican
quote:
They're afraid that whatever they tell him will make him snap.
The fear him, but they don't necessarily respect him. Think of the sequence when Ridley escapes, and he destroys the detention cell. The two stormtroopers are about to walk by, before the second guess themselves, and turn around.
It's a joke.
Kylo's having one of his moods! Better walk around.
Vader on the other hand, he projected menace. You could feel it through the screen.
This post was edited on 12/25/15 at 6:35 pm
Posted on 12/25/15 at 6:39 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Kylo's having one of his moods! Better walk around.
Since you can't see the storm troopers's faces you read into that scene what you will.
You read it as a joke or disrespect. I thought of it as true fear.
Vader will squash you like a bug. Ren feels like he may pull your wings off first if for no other reason than he is a child.
Posted on 12/25/15 at 6:44 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Let's talk about things that are actually in the movie.
It was in the movie, or inferred at the very least.
Han left years ago. He and Leia haven't spoken in years, Maz tells him every has been running for too long.
Driver is not very old. At best he is a playing a young man in his late 20s. There are only 30 years between the movies. Also, he was still an apprentice when he betrayed Luke.
Extrapolate further, Rey appears to be around 18-20, but between 4 and 6 when dropped off on Jakku. Presumably by Luke. At the very least, whatever happened at the Academy is why she is there. Look at her force potential, she was dropped on a desert planet in a dusty corner of the galaxy to protect her. She would be in danger in any kind of populated system, or on any populated planet.
So we roughly have a gap somewhere around 13-16 years between his turning to the dark side, and TFA.
It really didn't take any brain power for me to figure that out. I simply got that from watching the movie once.
I've never read, nor seen, anything regarding the current universe outside of the movies. Outside of a couple of stops on 2 or 3 sites reading what I could about Plagueis.
Oh, and Rogue Squadron on N64...I think it's still canon.
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