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re: In order, who living has the most legitimate claim to the iron throne?
Posted on 8/15/17 at 2:59 pm to DelU249
Posted on 8/15/17 at 2:59 pm to DelU249
Jon will never accept the throne unless forced too. Akin to how he is KITN.
You cannot control someone who doesn't want power.
Edit: Someone said the above line or akin to it in the show. Who was it?
You cannot control someone who doesn't want power.
Edit: Someone said the above line or akin to it in the show. Who was it?
This post was edited on 8/15/17 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 8/15/17 at 3:02 pm to 50_Tiger
varys? maybe twyin or Tyrion.
I know to whom they're referring...Robert Baratheon.
I know to whom they're referring...Robert Baratheon.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 3:48 pm to DelU249
quote:
It's not that he doesn't have a claim it's that he doesn't know about it thus won't pursue it and even if he did know about it, he wouldn't pursue it if daeny is queen
Agreed 100%. Hell, he wouldn't pursue it even if Cersei were to win the war unless she forced him to through an attempted conquest of the North. He barely wants the throne in the North. He's the quintessential reluctant king and reluctant hero.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 3:51 pm to LSU6262
Jon
Dany
Gendry
Cercei
Jaime
Dany
Gendry
Cercei
Jaime
Posted on 8/15/17 at 3:54 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:I think he might. she wouldn't recognize the north as independent and they'd go to war...so if he won the war, a Targaryen and rightful heir to the iron throne...i'd imagine he'd take the iron throne. maybe even grant the north independence.
Hell, he wouldn't pursue it even if Cersei were to win the war
tough to say though. he's got the ned stark genes. he may just keep it to himself and go back north and rule.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 3:56 pm to 50_Tiger
quote:
Jon will never accept the throne unless forced too. Akin to how he is KITN.
Which is why I dont get Dany's inability to understand why he wont bend the knee. Jon himself has no problem serving. Its what he does. He knows that he literally can not do it or everything falls apart....and then everyone dies.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 8:42 pm to shel311
quote:
How would Jaime be ahead of Cersei?
Because I read that Tywin Lannister’s great-great-grandfather, Lord Mathin Lannister, married Elyanna Baratheon.
Posted on 8/15/17 at 11:03 pm to LSU6262
quote:right now, Cersei does.
In order, who living has the most legitimate claim to the iron throne?
Robert overthrew the Targaryen line, he was recognized as the legitimate king by all parties other than Dany. Even surviving Targaryens and their supporters took the Black. Note that Randyll Tarly says Dany can't make him do that, as she's not his queen... and yet Thorne was at the Wall after Robert won.
So with that, all the various Targaryen bloodlines are irrelevant, as that house has been deposed.
Gendry- he's a bastard. No claim there.
If Cersei has the most legit claim, not sure of the progression. Seems like she'd slide behind Stannis and Renly, but there's no Barathron lineage left, so it then starts with her... would it track back to the other Lannister siblings afterwards, if she left no heir?
Would the Hand have the next claim, without any heirs? If so, that might also favor Cersei, as she is of the line of Tywin, the last Hand that has any surviving heirs.
If not the Hand, then it's really a free-for-all. As I said, a Targaryen has no claim anymore, as that line has been usurped.
Dany has a claim, but based on the strength of her military power (and supported by the Reach and Tyrells, but they're vacuums now).
Jon has a claim by being the highest ranking "Lord" of Westeros... King in the North, basically claiming the Stark banner and supported by the Arryns of the Vale.
Robin Arryn might be next as one of the few remaining legit heads of a major House; he's not pushing a military claim but a male Arryn might be ahead of a female Lannister, if not for the marriage. Heck, you might argue that he's technically the most legal option there is left.
Euron probably somewhere next as King of the Iron Islands,
Posted on 8/16/17 at 4:41 am to Scoob
quote:
We dont know what else that book says. If it only says that Rhaegar got an anullment, how would Sam infer that Jon is his son from that?
Yea, that's obviously a good point. However, I think what she read will come up at some point. Remember Sam's speech about people believe what the maesters say. I think one of them reads it and then sends out ravens to let everyone know.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 9:14 am to bcoop199
quote:
If it only says that Rhaegar got an anullment, how would Sam infer that Jon is his son from that?
I believe Gilly read that Rhaegar received an annulment and was married the same day.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 9:24 am to Ace Midnight
Even assuming Robert's claim was legitimate (and it was... the man sat on the throne for damn near 20 years), Cersei really has no claim to the throne aside from the fact that she was the most powerful person in the midst of a power vacuum. The wife of a king and then the queen-mother does not entitle her to the line of succession under most every inheritance law that has existed. She herself is a usurper. With Jon's lineage and legitimacy no longer a theory, he's now the rightful head of House Targaryen and has the best bloodline claim to the Iron Throne.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 9:53 am to LSU6262
Daenerys is going to frick Jon stupid when she finds out that he is a Targ
Posted on 8/16/17 at 9:57 am to jrodLSUke
quote:
Prince Rheagar died before being named king. King Aerys II named Viserys as his heir, not Jon. Dany is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne through her brother. Jon has the weaker claim.
So I started this post to tell you that you were wrong, but I wanted to confirm something and it turns out that you are correct even though your explanation isn't.
Viserys being named the heir over Jon is not especially relevant, as Jon was not known at the time. What is key is that Viserys was named heir over Aegon, Rhaegar's still-living son who was known at the time. Jon's claim through his dead brother (Aegon) does indeed appear to be weaker than Daenerys's claim through her dead brother (Viserys).
Posted on 8/16/17 at 10:39 am to jrodLSUke
quote:He's going to marry her anyways so it really doesn't matter
Dany has the better claim, based on the line of succession. You Jon fanboys are missing some critical information.
Prince Rheagar died before being named king. King Aerys II named Viserys as his heir, not Jon. Dany is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne through her brother. Jon has the weaker claim.
Daenerys
Jon
The rest are pretenders.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 11:52 am to LSU6262
There was an article from last year that tried to explain the most legitimate claim to the Iron Throne, and it turned out to be Jaime.
LINK
Robert Baratheon was king when the series started, and upon his death, his children, Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella would inherit the throne in that order. Of course, they're all technically inbred bastards who shouldn't have had a legitimate claim, but that's in the past. After them comes Robert's brother Stannis and his daughter Shireen, followed by Robert's youngest brother, Renly.
This being "Game of Thrones, they're all dead. So now what? We have to do some deep, deep dives to figure it out.
Robert's grandmother was actually a Targaryen. Rhaelle Targaryen was also the aunt of the Mad King Aerys, meaning that, ironically, Viserys (dead) and Daenerys would be next up in line. However, Robert's overthrow of the Targaryens and his effective exile of the surviving children would invalidate this claim most likely.
So who is actually left to inherit the throne? We have to go all the way back to Robert's great-great-great-great-grandfather to find out.
Corwen Baratheon wed a woman named Leyne about 200 years before the show began. They had six children, including Arion, who was Robert's great-great-great grandfather. That bloodline has been snuffed out, but another one of Corwen's children, Elyanna, married Lord Mathin Lannister.
Mathin Lannister was Tywin Lannister's great-great-grandfather. Which means that when Tywin died, the true inheritor of the Iron Throne was... Jaime Lannister.
Jaime is Tywin's firstborn son. However, he was a member of the Kingsguard, and members of that elite force are forbidden from taking lands, marrying, or fathering children. Remember, Tywin was furious that Jamie couldn't legally inherit Casterly Rock due to his vows, which were for life.
But when Tommen released Jaime from his vows as a Kingsguard, it freed him up to be the king.
LINK
Robert Baratheon was king when the series started, and upon his death, his children, Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella would inherit the throne in that order. Of course, they're all technically inbred bastards who shouldn't have had a legitimate claim, but that's in the past. After them comes Robert's brother Stannis and his daughter Shireen, followed by Robert's youngest brother, Renly.
This being "Game of Thrones, they're all dead. So now what? We have to do some deep, deep dives to figure it out.
Robert's grandmother was actually a Targaryen. Rhaelle Targaryen was also the aunt of the Mad King Aerys, meaning that, ironically, Viserys (dead) and Daenerys would be next up in line. However, Robert's overthrow of the Targaryens and his effective exile of the surviving children would invalidate this claim most likely.
So who is actually left to inherit the throne? We have to go all the way back to Robert's great-great-great-great-grandfather to find out.
Corwen Baratheon wed a woman named Leyne about 200 years before the show began. They had six children, including Arion, who was Robert's great-great-great grandfather. That bloodline has been snuffed out, but another one of Corwen's children, Elyanna, married Lord Mathin Lannister.
Mathin Lannister was Tywin Lannister's great-great-grandfather. Which means that when Tywin died, the true inheritor of the Iron Throne was... Jaime Lannister.
Jaime is Tywin's firstborn son. However, he was a member of the Kingsguard, and members of that elite force are forbidden from taking lands, marrying, or fathering children. Remember, Tywin was furious that Jamie couldn't legally inherit Casterly Rock due to his vows, which were for life.
But when Tommen released Jaime from his vows as a Kingsguard, it freed him up to be the king.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 1:10 pm to LSU6262
If what Gilly said in the Eastwatch episode is true about Rhaegar getting an annulment which means he and Lyanna were rightfully married and John is not a bastard at all, then John is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.
However, possession is 9/10 of the law so as long as the Lannisters sit on it it is theirs.
However, possession is 9/10 of the law so as long as the Lannisters sit on it it is theirs.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 2:09 pm to DannyB
Serious question: since the Targaryens were deposed, how are any of their claims considered "legit"? I mean, I get the concept of them reclaiming it, but that will likely need to be done with force (hence, Dany has the stronger claim over Jon, since she's the one with the stronger army).
But Robert's claim was that he deposed the Targaryens, right? Or was it that he somehow was next in the Targaryen line, after his rebellion? And all the Houses opposed a returning Targaryen in season 1; the Starks, Baratheons, Arryns, Tyrells etc were in agreement with the Lannisters on this.
If it's not based on bloodlines prior to Robert, then I'd imagine it's got to be either the best option among the great houses (Robin Arryn is the last male of a BIG house still in power, if we exclude Euron since the Greyjoys are despised by the rest), or a transfer to the Hand or someone else powerful like that.
I'm thinking of this during an era of peace, not a raging war, and assuming that Joffrey and Tommen are dead; no heirs from that line.
But Robert's claim was that he deposed the Targaryens, right? Or was it that he somehow was next in the Targaryen line, after his rebellion? And all the Houses opposed a returning Targaryen in season 1; the Starks, Baratheons, Arryns, Tyrells etc were in agreement with the Lannisters on this.
If it's not based on bloodlines prior to Robert, then I'd imagine it's got to be either the best option among the great houses (Robin Arryn is the last male of a BIG house still in power, if we exclude Euron since the Greyjoys are despised by the rest), or a transfer to the Hand or someone else powerful like that.
I'm thinking of this during an era of peace, not a raging war, and assuming that Joffrey and Tommen are dead; no heirs from that line.
Posted on 8/16/17 at 2:34 pm to Scoob
quote:
But Robert's claim was that he deposed the Targaryens, right? Or was it that he somehow was next in the Targaryen line, after his rebellion?
Robert's claim came through his grandmother Rhaelle Targaryen, daughter of Aegon V (Egg from Dunk & Egg).
He technically had the strongest claim of anyone not in exile, though it seems like this is more of an after-the-fact justification as opposed to an actual factor in him claiming the iron throne.
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