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I rewatched "Blackwater" last night.

Posted on 8/11/17 at 7:37 am
Posted by Slippy
Across the rivah
Member since Aug 2005
6584 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 7:37 am
I kept seeing it ranked as the best GOT episode ever, so I went back and refreshed myself.

It is very good from a writing standpoint. But the battle scene was subpar compared to later episodes like Hardhome and BOTB. No wide shots, too few soldiers, looks like it was filmed in a studio.

Quite possibly Lena Headey's best episode. The Cersai-Sansa interplay was spectacular.
Posted by musick
the internet
Member since Dec 2008
26125 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 7:40 am to
Posted by MF Doom
I'm only Joshin'
Member since Oct 2008
11712 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 7:56 am to
quote:

Don't fight for a king. Don't fight for his kingdoms. Don't fight for honor, don't fight for glory, don't fight for riches, because you won't get any. This is your city Stannis means to sack. That's your gate he's ramming. If he gets in it will be your house that burns. Your gold he steals, your women he rapes. Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!



Ah, back when Tyrion was a compelling character and the writing was good
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58084 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:08 am to
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
108567 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:24 am to
quote:

It is very good from a writing standpoint. But the battle scene was subpar compared to later episodes like Hardhome and BOTB. No wide shots, too few soldiers, looks like it was filmed in a studio.



Yeah, I'd much, much rather have that than Watchers on the Wall. WotW is an episode of all style and no substance. I think D&D realize this which is why they have not whatsoever repeated the mistakes of that in Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, and the Spoils of War. You could easily cut the episode in half, especially the scenes in the vaults with Sam, Gilly, and Janos Slynt in the vaults, which is pathetic compared to the amazing scenes with Sansa and Cersei in Blackwater. They should have intercut this episode with Tyrion killing Tywin.

I still think Blackwater is my favorite episode. I do think that it or the Rains of Castamere are the two best written episodes of the show. Just not a single wasted line of dialogue, and all the plots save for the Northmen converging was fantastic. Like you really wanted Stannis and Davos to take out Joffrey and Cersei, but then you've got tons of characters you like on the other side of the wall that you know are doomed if Stannis wins. Also the Hound's best episode for sure.

The only episode I question that I like more may be "The Winds of Winter". Despite not being as grandiose as the battles that came after it, I still feel pretty comfortable saying it's my favorite battle episode.
Posted by PeteRose
Hall of Fame
Member since Aug 2014
16875 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:33 am to
At the time I watched blackwater, I wasn't yet a book reader. It was very intense. I think it's one of 2 episodes that took place at 1 location. It's was back at forth. One minute I thought KL would win, then Stannis, then KL, then Stannis then KL. It was well done.

Posted by Carson123987
Middle Court at the Rec
Member since Jul 2011
66439 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:36 am to
it is by far the best battle episode. the writing for that episode was impeccable.

GOT then: "work with this budget, the writing is what will carry us

GOT now: "dont worry about budget OR writing lmao"
Posted by Mystery
Member since Jan 2009
9003 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:38 am to
I actually watched it last night too by chance. It is great, but I do think Hardhorne and BOTB are better by a wide margin.
Posted by Carson123987
Middle Court at the Rec
Member since Jul 2011
66439 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:39 am to
quote:

back when Tyrion was a compelling character and the writing was good


yup. such a tragedy


quote:

At the time I watched blackwater, I wasn't yet a book reader. It was very intense. I think it's one of 2 episodes that took place at 1 location. It's was back at forth. One minute I thought KL would win, then Stannis, then KL, then Stannis then KL. It was well done


all of this. you really wanted Stannis to win, but you knew Tyrion (and others) would be history if he did. quite the tug-o-war. the tone and atmosphere of the episode haven't been matched yet, and there were so many great moments
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
108567 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:43 am to
quote:

the tone and atmosphere of the episode haven't been matched yet, and there were so many great moments



I mean, Battle of the Battle of the Bastards had a great tone to it as well, and you definitely had the tug of war with the Spoils of War. Granted you knew that Jon would win BotB, but I don't think the later battle episodes are as poor as you're implying.
Posted by Carson123987
Middle Court at the Rec
Member since Jul 2011
66439 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:49 am to
quote:

mean, Battle of the Battle of the Bastards had a great tone to it as well, and you definitely had the tug of war with the Spoils of War. Granted you knew that Jon would win BotB, but I don't think the later battle episodes are as poor as you're implying.


I didn't say they were poor, just not as good as Blackwater.

I didn't really have a tug with Spoils of War either, you knew Dany would win after getting the shaft the last 2 episodes. The only character I was worried about was Bronn - Jaime has shiny plot armor
This post was edited on 8/11/17 at 8:50 am
Posted by SCLSUMuddogs
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
6869 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:51 am to
quote:

it is by far the best battle episode. the writing for that episode was impeccable.

GOT then: "work with this budget, the writing is what will carry us

GOT now: "dont worry about budget OR writing lmao"


George R.R. Martin then: Follow the books
George R.R. Martin now: Good luck frickers
Posted by Sun God
Member since Jul 2009
44874 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 8:57 am to
epic as shite when Tywin enters the red keep at the end
This post was edited on 8/11/17 at 8:58 am
Posted by Mystery
Member since Jan 2009
9003 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 9:05 am to
quote:

epic as shite when Tywin enters the red keep at the end


Meh, Kind of a cheesy line by him.

Also at the start of episode 10 does he really need to ride the damn horse?
Posted by The Egg
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2004
79144 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 9:06 am to
quote:

Hardhome
still my #1
Posted by Carson123987
Middle Court at the Rec
Member since Jul 2011
66439 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 9:07 am to
quote:

epic as shite when Tywin enters the red keep at the end


Yes duuuuuddde. So epic. The theme starts playing, Loras pulls off his helmet, Tywin walks in with that awesome armor with the boss arse red sash. That look of relief on Cersei's face as she mutters "Father..."
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
20417 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 9:18 am to
It goes to show the evolution of the show.

Yes, the writing was good, but the combat scenes were basically just suggested. There are episodes of Vikings that have better visuals (the storming of Paris), and sometimes as good in writing (Ragnar taking the king out when the king moves on him).

BOB, Hardhome, and Spoils of War are 3 episodes that, with minimal editing of the script, could be converted to blockbuster-type movies... and you don't have to wait a year for the next episode (I think Star Wars and the superhero movies might be watching that and worrying about their format longevity).
Posted by JumpingTheShark
America
Member since Nov 2012
22908 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 9:19 am to
quote:

Also at the start of episode 10 does he really need to ride the damn horse?


Of course not, that's the damn point.
Posted by DelU249
Austria
Member since Dec 2010
77625 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 9:21 am to
i keep hearing about decline with this character or the writing...


the quality of the show pretty much followed the arcs of the book

1 & 2 were super good like the GoT & CoK

3 & 4 being based off SoS were the best

5 being based off the split between FfC and DwD were less exciting but made better than the books

6 was an extrapolation of where the last 2 books were headed so they had a starting point but had to invent off of it (so better than 5 but not as good as any other season)

7 they're in uncharted territory being so far beyond the books. it's all new material with a tentative understanding from the author of how things were going to play out...the least exciting, but last week's battle delivered and was every bit as good as all the others if not the best.

7 & 8 will be the weakest seasons, but good enough to where I can't wait every week for the latest episode.
This post was edited on 8/11/17 at 12:33 pm
Posted by Tigeralum2008
Yankees Fan
Member since Apr 2012
17139 posts
Posted on 8/11/17 at 9:33 am to
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