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Message
re: Game of Thrones: Who should get to kill ________? (spoilers)
Posted on 5/20/15 at 8:55 am to terd ferguson
Posted on 5/20/15 at 8:55 am to terd ferguson
Ramsay is a shithead. Nobody will ever debate that 
0
Posted on 5/20/15 at 8:56 am to OMLandshark
quote:
It's possible it was Cersei, since she might not recognize what Valyrian Steel looks like and give it to a thief. But Jaime for sure would not have sent the assassin. He'd surely know what Valyrian Steel looked like and Jaime would see that act as simply cowardice.
Like someone said above, Cersei could've known full well it was Valyrian Steel and was just trying to frame Tyrion.
But with that said, I doubt she would've been willing to travel further down the path of war with the Starks by doing it. Joffrey on the other hand couldn't care less about pissing off the Starks. That was evident by the conversation the two of them had back in season 1 where Joffrey kept wanting to punish Arya and was saying we would march on Winterfell if the Starks didn't like it, and Cersei was trying to explain to him that a war against the Starks was useless since it is to vast for anyone else to hold.
If you factor in the fact that Joffrey had been incensed by the Starks "lack of respect" for him, and the fact that Tyrion didn't take crap off of him, I think the most likely culprit is that Joffrey saw an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone with the assassination.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 8:58 am to OMLandshark
quote:
But I'd say Tywin is evil too. Yeah, he wants stability, but only if it's under his rule. Other than that, neither Tywin nor Roose really give a shite. Both characters are textbook Lawful Evil.
I don't know if you ever read the World of Ice and Fire but they go pretty in depth into Tywin's history. I got he wasn't an evil man. He was ruthless to his enemys and a hard man to like. Tywin was driven by his family's legacy and to keep the Name of Lannister a powerful one. Tywin's father was a joke of a lord, and would forgive people for laughing in his face and stealing lands out from under him. Tywin didn't like this and when he came of age he took care of all the enemies of house Lannister in the Wester lands. Also after his wife died it changed him completely. His entire drive in life is his family but its too a fault
As for Roose, he IS RAMSAY crazy but he has learned to control it. The Bolton's have always hated the starks and have always wanted to rule in the North, they have been the Starks little brother since the inception of the North. Roose is a Controlled Psychopath where his son is out of control.
This post was edited on 5/20/15 at 9:00 am
Posted on 5/20/15 at 9:00 am to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
I thought it was confirmed in the books that Joffery did it. Someone said he did it to please Robert because he overheard Robert saying that someone should put a knife through Bran's heart. That that would be a kindness instead of letting him live as a cripple
It was never confirmed in the books. But Tyrion, Jamie, and Cersei all believed he did it. Jamie and Cersei believed he did it because of what you said, but Tyrion believed he did it because Tyrion slapped Joffrey down and made him offer his sympathies to Ned about Bran's fall when they were at Winterfell.
This post was edited on 5/20/15 at 9:01 am
Posted on 5/20/15 at 10:15 am to Bamatab
quote:
I'd love to see Sansa make some Bolton pies out of him, and feed him to Roose.
This. It would be cool to see Sansa finally stand up for herself. She almost pushed Joffrey of the walkway that time before Sandor stopped her.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 11:48 am to KingSlayer
Reek.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 11:54 am to LordoftheManor
I think it will be Theon, but the act of doing so kills them both.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 12:05 pm to 68wDoc68w
quote:
I don't know if you ever read the World of Ice and Fire but they go pretty in depth into Tywin's history. I got he wasn't an evil man. He was ruthless to his enemys and a hard man to like. Tywin was driven by his family's legacy and to keep the Name of Lannister a powerful one. Tywin's father was a joke of a lord, and would forgive people for laughing in his face and stealing lands out from under him. Tywin didn't like this and when he came of age he took care of all the enemies of house Lannister in the Wester lands. Also after his wife died it changed him completely. His entire drive in life is his family but its too a fault
I understand Tywin's inner workings, but you can't tell me what he's done to Tyrion simply wasn't evil. Having your entire guard rape your son's wife and then having your son finish her off is about as evil as you can get. Plus, I'm willing to bet Tywin told the Mountain to kill Elia Martell as well for what he perceived as spurning his daughter. Tywin's evil caught up with him, and he was killed over it. Tywin is a complex form of evil, but I still think was evil none-the-less simply for his treatment of Tyrion.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 12:08 pm to Bamatab
quote:
Like someone said above, Cersei could've known full well it was Valyrian Steel and was just trying to frame Tyrion.
As much as she hates Tyrion, she wouldn't try to implicate any member of her family over this since it still comes back to her. If an assassin tried to kill Tommen with a dagger belonging to Benjen Stark, they'd still implicate the Stark clan as a whole and not just Benjen.
quote:
But with that said, I doubt she would've been willing to travel further down the path of war with the Starks by doing it. Joffrey on the other hand couldn't care less about pissing off the Starks. That was evident by the conversation the two of them had back in season 1 where Joffrey kept wanting to punish Arya and was saying we would march on Winterfell if the Starks didn't like it, and Cersei was trying to explain to him that a war against the Starks was useless since it is to vast for anyone else to hold.
If you factor in the fact that Joffrey had been incensed by the Starks "lack of respect" for him, and the fact that Tyrion didn't take crap off of him, I think the most likely culprit is that Joffrey saw an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone with the assassination.
Exactly
Posted on 5/20/15 at 12:18 pm to OMLandshark
I thought Joffery implicated himself in the books when Tywin gave him the valyrian blade before his wedding? "This isn't my first time handling valyrian steel."
Posted on 5/20/15 at 12:20 pm to KingSlayer
Revenge and justice are often asymmetrical on GoT. The bad guys almost always get their due, but its in ways you never expected. No doubt everyone would've loved to see Robb Stark storm King's Landing and behead Joffrey, but instead Grandma Tyrell takes him out with poison. Ditto Tywin (who wasn't quite a villain, but definitely not a hero) - he doesn't die in some dramatic battle scene at the hands of a hero; he's killed on the shitter by Tyrion (another "anti-hero"). Even Locke had his neck snapped by Hodor, when most viewers probably expected an epic showdown with Jon Snow.
There is one character that's an exception to this rule of asymmetrical vengeance - Arya Stark. Arya killed the Frey lackeys who desecrated the bodies of Robb and Catelyn Stark. Ditto the thug who killed her buddy in season 2 ("that's a fine blade...."). I suppose she also achieved a measure of vengeance with The Hound. What's Arya doing now? She's becoming a member of the Faceless Men, the most-skilled organization of assassins in the world. So, if there was ever anyone who would get a really awesome moment (or moments) of vengeance, my guess is it would belong to Arya.
There is one character that's an exception to this rule of asymmetrical vengeance - Arya Stark. Arya killed the Frey lackeys who desecrated the bodies of Robb and Catelyn Stark. Ditto the thug who killed her buddy in season 2 ("that's a fine blade...."). I suppose she also achieved a measure of vengeance with The Hound. What's Arya doing now? She's becoming a member of the Faceless Men, the most-skilled organization of assassins in the world. So, if there was ever anyone who would get a really awesome moment (or moments) of vengeance, my guess is it would belong to Arya.
This post was edited on 5/20/15 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 5/20/15 at 1:25 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Having your entire guard rape your son's wife and then having your son finish her off is about as evil as you can get
No doubt it f'ed up, it cruel and in-humane, but I believe his motives for doing that wasn't pure evil, he was teaching Tyrion a lesson, that Lion doesn't lay with a peasant girl.
quote:
I'm willing to bet Tywin told the Mountain to kill Elia Martell as well for what he perceived as spurning his daughter
No doubt, I know he told Gregor to kill her and the children ( I don't know if the rape was part of that order.) But that was out of political motives. He and Robert couldn't have any targs with a claim to throne alive, or risk having the targ loyalist continue to fight and the war never end.
quote:
Tywin is a complex form of evil, but I still think was evil none-the-less simply for his treatment of Tyrion.
Yes and No. there were times that he treated Tyrion well. Hell he made him hand of the king. Also I tend believe Tywin when he said " do you really think I'd let them execute My blood", then Tyrion made it hard for him when he demanded a trial by combat.
But did Tywin dislike Tyrion... yes... "all dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes".
SPOILERS POSSIBLE
Also there is that theory that Tyrion really isn't Tywin son and actually the Mad Kings ( after he raped Joanna) and if Tywin feels he could not be his son but just can't prove that goes to his resentment of Tyrion.
Im only playing devils advocate here, Like you said Tywin is a complex man, but I don't him as evil.
then again there varying degrees of evil
Posted on 5/20/15 at 1:32 pm to 68wDoc68w
quote:
No doubt it f'ed up, it cruel and in-humane, but I believe his motives for doing that wasn't pure evil, he was teaching Tyrion a lesson, that Lion doesn't lay with a peasant girl.
If Jaime did the same thing, he wouldn't have done that to Jaime. What he did was just evil to Tyrion.
quote:
Yes and No. there were times that he treated Tyrion well. Hell he made him hand of the king. Also I tend believe Tywin when he said " do you really think I'd let them execute My blood", then Tyrion made it hard for him when he demanded a trial by combat.
Well, he only made Tyrion Hand because he knew he was the only one besides himself who could actually control Cersei and Joffrey. After all the stupid crap that happened immediately after Robert died, he had to reluctantly admit that he needed Tyrion in that position. That was no reward from Tywin.
And while I think that he would have exiled him to the Wall if it weren't for the trial, I think after the Red Viper's death, he was for sure going to have him executed and was lying to Tyrion when he found him in the privy.
quote:
Also there is that theory that Tyrion really isn't Tywin son and actually the Mad Kings ( after he raped Joanna) and if Tywin feels he could not be his son but just can't prove that goes to his resentment of Tyrion.
I will not argue with this theory, because it simply isn't even worth pondering.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 1:37 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I will not argue with this theory, because it simply isn't even worth pondering.
C'mon...you know you want to.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 1:41 pm to 68wDoc68w
quote:
there is that theory that Tyrion really isn't Tywin son and actually the Mad Kings ( after he raped Joanna)
THAT WASN'T RAPE!!!!!
Posted on 5/20/15 at 1:52 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
If Jaime did the same thing, he wouldn't have done that to Jaime. What he did was just evil to Tyrion.
maybe, but I don't think Jamie would have married anyone except for his sister.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 2:14 pm to Korin
quote:Yeah, I always thought that was the answer moment. It's never talked about again, and Joffrey is dead, so I considered it a closed matter.
I thought Joffery implicated himself in the books when Tywin gave him the valyrian blade before his wedding? "This isn't my first time handling valyrian steel."
Posted on 5/20/15 at 2:28 pm to blueboy
quote:
I thought Joffery implicated himself in the books when Tywin gave him the valyrian blade before his wedding? "This isn't my first time handling valyrian steel."
Flimsy at best. Joffrey was the heir to the throne and part of the richest family in Westoros, I'm sure he had the oppurtunity to handle Valyrian steel a time or two prior. This isn't exactly damning evidence. And at the time we're getting this from Tyrion's POV and he's not terribly happy with his nephew. I took it as Tyrion trying to convince himself it was Joffrey.
Posted on 5/20/15 at 2:59 pm to KingSlayer
quote:
Or some other character?
Rickon and Shaggydog
Posted on 5/20/15 at 3:01 pm to LucasP
Joffery also ran around saying he "broke Stannis at the Blackwater". Not far-fetched to assume he also has delusions of grandeur RE: Valyrian Steel.
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