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Four Flaws with 'The Godfather' (SPOILERS)
Posted on 11/15/10 at 9:23 am
Posted on 11/15/10 at 9:23 am
Four Flaws with 'The Godfather'
Having just rewatched parts 1 and 2 last week and having them fresh in my mind, I have to agree with points #1 and #4 that the author makes.
They send Michael to Italy to avoid revenge and/or prosecution in the murdering of Solozzo and the cop...but then a few years later he returns and everything is somehow hunky dory. Does the government have no interest in prosecuting a cop killer (yea, I know they smeared the cop in the press, but still) or have the other families lost interest in killing Michael who killed a guy that was set to make them a lot of money in the drug business?
And the same kind of thing goes for #4.....you kill the heads of the 5 families and they never seek to exact revenge? That just seems a bit absurd.
I'm not complaining about the movie, BTW. I love it. I just thought it might be interesting to discuss some of the plot points that are less than convincing.
What do you guys think?
Having just rewatched parts 1 and 2 last week and having them fresh in my mind, I have to agree with points #1 and #4 that the author makes.
They send Michael to Italy to avoid revenge and/or prosecution in the murdering of Solozzo and the cop...but then a few years later he returns and everything is somehow hunky dory. Does the government have no interest in prosecuting a cop killer (yea, I know they smeared the cop in the press, but still) or have the other families lost interest in killing Michael who killed a guy that was set to make them a lot of money in the drug business?
And the same kind of thing goes for #4.....you kill the heads of the 5 families and they never seek to exact revenge? That just seems a bit absurd.
I'm not complaining about the movie, BTW. I love it. I just thought it might be interesting to discuss some of the plot points that are less than convincing.
What do you guys think?
9
Posted on 11/15/10 at 9:55 am to WikiTiger
The Corleone family controls judges and the press. They made it go away and that is shown through the progressive newspaper headlines. It got buried.
It comes up again in Godfather 2 during Michael's hearing before the Senate. But, he was never charged with the murder.
It comes up again in Godfather 2 during Michael's hearing before the Senate. But, he was never charged with the murder.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 10:26 am to WikiTiger
i have flaws in his flaws.
#1 is described by the above poster.
#2 This is not like it's impossible. The cars of that time period were not made of sheetmetal. It's not inconvenience that he could actually barely make it out of the car. Lets remember it's not like he got out and was walking and breathing fine.
#3 After Sonny was killed, Don sat down with the families and asked that no more blood be shed. Once the Don was gone, then and only then did it become fair game. Also Vito makes it known that he doesn't want to see Connie be a widow. And the final thing is that they were not certain that Carlo was behind it, until you see the scene of Michael directly asking him.
#4 If you organize such a huge hit on all of the heads of the families, you now have shown an immense amount of force and power. With the new Don being Michael, alot of the old Don's needed to be pushed out. It was a revenge plot setup throughout the whole movie by small subtle words. Also with Don Vito gone, the Corleone family had to show a sign of strength.
#1 is described by the above poster.
#2 This is not like it's impossible. The cars of that time period were not made of sheetmetal. It's not inconvenience that he could actually barely make it out of the car. Lets remember it's not like he got out and was walking and breathing fine.
#3 After Sonny was killed, Don sat down with the families and asked that no more blood be shed. Once the Don was gone, then and only then did it become fair game. Also Vito makes it known that he doesn't want to see Connie be a widow. And the final thing is that they were not certain that Carlo was behind it, until you see the scene of Michael directly asking him.
#4 If you organize such a huge hit on all of the heads of the families, you now have shown an immense amount of force and power. With the new Don being Michael, alot of the old Don's needed to be pushed out. It was a revenge plot setup throughout the whole movie by small subtle words. Also with Don Vito gone, the Corleone family had to show a sign of strength.
This post was edited on 11/15/10 at 10:40 am
Posted on 11/15/10 at 10:36 am to WikiTiger
"or have the other families lost interest in killing Michael who killed a guy that was set to make them a lot of money in the drug business? "
part of the deal in the meeting of the 5 families is the corleones share their judicial power to allow drug selling, with michael being allowed to return and be safe
"But I have selfish reasons. My youngest son -- was
forced to leave this country, --
(then, as he stands, with Tom's assistance)
-- because of this Sollozzo business. All right -- and I have to make arrangements to bring him back here safely -- cleared of all these false charges. But I'm a superstitious man -- and
if some unlucky accident should befall him -- if he should get shot in the head by a police officer -- or if he -- should hang himself in his jail cell -- or if he's struck by a bolt of
lightning -- then I'm going to blame some of the people in this room. And that, I do not
forgive.
part of the deal in the meeting of the 5 families is the corleones share their judicial power to allow drug selling, with michael being allowed to return and be safe
"But I have selfish reasons. My youngest son -- was
forced to leave this country, --
(then, as he stands, with Tom's assistance)
-- because of this Sollozzo business. All right -- and I have to make arrangements to bring him back here safely -- cleared of all these false charges. But I'm a superstitious man -- and
if some unlucky accident should befall him -- if he should get shot in the head by a police officer -- or if he -- should hang himself in his jail cell -- or if he's struck by a bolt of
lightning -- then I'm going to blame some of the people in this room. And that, I do not
forgive.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 10:38 am to WikiTiger
I think the alleged "flaws" are pretty much accounted for in the movies and the book.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 10:58 am to VOR
IIRC in the book they got some low level mafia guy who was getting convicted of another crime to confess to the cop killing.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 11:00 am to WikiTiger
Regarding going away after killing the cop: Yes, the family had the judges and the press but I always assumed going away for a while allowed the outcry that comes with killing a cop, to die down some, making it easier for the prosecution to not pursue it.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 11:08 am to WikiTiger
quote:
They send Michael to Italy to avoid revenge and/or prosecution in the murdering of Solozzo and the cop...but then a few years later he returns and everything is somehow hunky dory. Does the government have no interest in prosecuting a cop killer (yea, I know they smeared the cop in the press, but still)
In the novel, a petty criminal confesses to the crime with the understanding that his family will be taken care of after he is convicted (and executed)
quote:
And the same kind of thing goes for #4.....you kill the heads of the 5 families and they never seek to exact revenge? That just seems a bit absurd.
It can be presumed that the new heads of the other families don't want a war but would rather consolidate their power.
If you want to bitch about Godfather-related plot holes, let it be the attempted killing of Pentangeli in GF2. The guy choking him says "Michael Corleone says hello" -- which if you think about it, makes absolutely no sense at all.
(According to legend Danny Aiello ad-libbed the line so he would have some dialogue, and Coppola was so amused by it kept it in)
Posted on 11/15/10 at 11:14 am to Kafka
quote:
If you want to bitch about Godfather-related plot holes, let it be the attempted killing of Pentangeli in GF2. The guy choking him says "Michael Corleone says hello" -- which if you think about it, makes absolutely no sense at all.
I always thought Hymen Roth set it up that way and gave orders not to completely kill him, thinking Pentangeli would go after Michael. This way, no one would go after Roth for killing Michael
Posted on 11/15/10 at 11:15 am to eddieray
quote:
I always thought Hymen Roth set it up that way and gave orders not to completely kill him, thinking Pentangeli would go after Michael. This way, no one would go after Roth for killing Michael
That's what I always thought it was.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 11:17 am to eddieray
quote:
I always thought Hymen Roth set it up that way and gave orders not to completely kill him, thinking Pentangeli would go after Michael. This way, no one would go after Roth for killing Michael
this
ETA: There are no flaws in The Godfather
This post was edited on 11/15/10 at 11:21 am
Posted on 11/15/10 at 11:17 am to eddieray
quote:
I always thought Hymen Roth set it up that way and gave orders not to completely kill him, thinking Pentangeli would go after Michael. This way, no one would go after Roth for killing Michael
same here, those were my thoughts
Posted on 11/15/10 at 11:23 am to eddieray
When Hagen later says "Roth...played this one brilliantly", are we supposed to believe that Roth engineered the entire scenario, including the cop coming in the bar to interrupt the hit (who IIRC gets killed), causing a barely-alive Pentangeli (and Willy Cicci) to think Michael had betrayed him? If the cop's coming along was accidental, there was no logical reason for the Rosato brothers not to finish the killing of Pentangeli -- and no reason to tell him "Michael Corleone says hello", which is untrue.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 12:03 pm to WikiTiger
Do we REALLY need a spoiler alert for a 35+ year old movie?
Posted on 11/15/10 at 12:24 pm to memphis tiger
Yes
Posted on 11/15/10 at 12:51 pm to Tiger JJ
If the title of the thread is "Flaws With X Movie", I think spoliers can be safely assumed. You CANNOT discuss the flaws of a movie without spoilers.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 1:01 pm to Baloo
wouldnt/shouldnt this whole board just be considered spoilers? Its here to discuss movies. When movies are discussed then chances are there will be spoilers.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 1:07 pm to memphis tiger
I agree that no spoiler warning is necessary but I know there are some people on here who get butthurt when it's not posted.
Personally if I see a thread on a movie I have not seen but do intend to eventually then I don't click. I guess I'm just a stickler for personal responsibility.
Personally if I see a thread on a movie I have not seen but do intend to eventually then I don't click. I guess I'm just a stickler for personal responsibility.
Posted on 11/15/10 at 1:26 pm to WikiTiger
Idk about the movies, but in the book they get a kid whos already caught for murder to say he did it too. The lack of physical evidence (special tape on the gun) make it hard to put someone else up for the murders.
This post was edited on 11/15/10 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 11/15/10 at 2:18 pm to Kafka
quote:
When Hagen later says "Roth...played this one brilliantly", are we supposed to believe that Roth engineered the entire scenario, including the cop coming in the bar to interrupt the hit (who IIRC gets killed), causing a barely-alive Pentangeli (and Willy Cicci) to think Michael had betrayed him?
In short, yes.
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