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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 4/27/13 at 6:45 am to F machine
Posted on 4/27/13 at 6:45 am to F machine
quote:
What if cersei kills Jamie?
I'm trying to remember the details of Maggie's prophecy for Cersci. Wasn't it something like each of her children would wear a crown and then a shroud and then she would be choked by the "little brother?"
So far, Joffrey's met both parts, Tommen one. Myrcella none yet I think.
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 6:47 am
1
Posted on 4/27/13 at 7:31 am to Methuselah
Attempting to compile a character list of the good, the bad, and the "it's complicated"
First the bad
The Bad
Ramsey Bolton
Roose Bolton
Almost all the Freys
Cersei Lannister
*Janos Slynt
Allister Thorne
*Tywin Lannister
Gregor Clegane
All the Bloody Murmmers
*Joffery Lannister
Peytr Baelish
*Grand Maester Pycelle
*Viserys Targaryen
*Aerys II Targayen
*Balon Greyjoy
Euron Greyjoy
*Craster
*Lysa Tulley
Qyburn
*Rattleshirt
* = dead
Who else?
First the bad
The Bad
Ramsey Bolton
Roose Bolton
Almost all the Freys
Cersei Lannister
*Janos Slynt
Allister Thorne
*Tywin Lannister
Gregor Clegane
All the Bloody Murmmers
*Joffery Lannister
Peytr Baelish
*Grand Maester Pycelle
*Viserys Targaryen
*Aerys II Targayen
*Balon Greyjoy
Euron Greyjoy
*Craster
*Lysa Tulley
Qyburn
*Rattleshirt
* = dead
Who else?
This post was edited on 4/28/13 at 7:42 pm
Posted on 4/27/13 at 7:41 am to Hugo Stiglitz
Tywin and Littlefinger have enough complexities about them that I wouldn't really put them as straight out black and white "bad" though they have both done some horrendous things. Roose kind of fits this also though he's a little closer to being flat out bad if only because of his rape of the miller's wife and hanging of the miller.
I think the most completely "bad" would be Joffrey, Gregor, Euron and Craster. Aerys II also at least at the end. I'm not sure about when he was younger.
I think the most completely "bad" would be Joffrey, Gregor, Euron and Craster. Aerys II also at least at the end. I'm not sure about when he was younger.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 7:46 am to Methuselah
quote:
Roose kind of fits this also though he's a little closer to being flat out bad if only because of his rape of the miller's wife and hanging of the miller.
His betrayal of Robb was his worst act, imo. Tywin didn't betray anyone at the RW.
quote:
Aerys II also at least at the end. I'm not sure about when he was younger.
I have a hard time thinking of Egg's son as pure evil but we really don't know.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 7:50 am to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
In one of the Asha chapters in ADWD, she mentions the Children of the Forrest/Greenseers having the ability to make the trees come to life and fight like warriors. She heard the legends as a kid where they were summoned to fight the First Men.
That's more than likely just a little nod/tribute to Tolkien's influence. Or that's how I'll take it until it comes up again.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 7:55 am to Methuselah
Let's look at Tywin's rap sheet
-Has son's wife gang raped, forces him to watch and finish her off
-Has no problem ordering the killing of kids
-Has no problem ordering the killing of innocent villagers through burning their lands
-Total hypocrite when it comes to whores
He's a shrewd man and a pragmatic ruler but the dude is bad.
-Has son's wife gang raped, forces him to watch and finish her off
-Has no problem ordering the killing of kids
-Has no problem ordering the killing of innocent villagers through burning their lands
-Total hypocrite when it comes to whores
He's a shrewd man and a pragmatic ruler but the dude is bad.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 8:00 am to Methuselah
Littlefinger's rap sheet
- Whores out little boys for political support
- Almost single handedly responsible for destroying the Starks through the murder of Jon Ayrn and pinning it on the Lannisters
-Is basically a pedophile himself
-Bankrupted the throne
Yeah, he's easily on the bad list IMO
ETA: I hope Sansa murders the frick out him. Perfect ironic poetic justice
- Whores out little boys for political support
- Almost single handedly responsible for destroying the Starks through the murder of Jon Ayrn and pinning it on the Lannisters
-Is basically a pedophile himself
-Bankrupted the throne
Yeah, he's easily on the bad list IMO
ETA: I hope Sansa murders the frick out him. Perfect ironic poetic justice
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 8:09 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 8:46 am to Hugo Stiglitz
Nm
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 8:47 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 8:48 am to Hugo Stiglitz
I'd say Theon is a "It's Complicated" character.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 8:54 am to OMLandshark
Yeah, he's borderline... He's remorseful and kinda went to the dark side but there is still good in him I think.
Just so many bad choices it was hard to keep him off bad list.
I think he could be in "it's complicated"
Just so many bad choices it was hard to keep him off bad list.
I think he could be in "it's complicated"
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:13 am to Hugo Stiglitz
I'm not saying Tywin and Littlfinger didn't do horrible things. Just that I think their characters have been portrayed with enough complexities that I don't look them in turns of a black and white good guy/bad guy paradigm.
Tywin's primary motivation always seems to be restoring the reputations and fortune of his house as one of the great houses of Westeros. He felt his father brought the house to the brink of ruin. I think all of things listed here were done in furtherance of these ends.
Littlefinger had a similar motivation except his house was never a great one. He was trying to advance in a class structure which is pretty hard to advance in. Plus, he had the added motivation of his love for Cat which I think was genuine. And the fact that his unborn child with Lysa was pretty much aborted by his wife's father. I think he wanted to advance to as high as station a he could and was hoping to end up with Cat somehow or now that she's undead, with her daughter.
On the other hand, it seems to me that characters like Ramsey, Joffrey and the Mountain were motivated by some inner desire to inflict pain on others and they seem to enjoy it. (The Mountain' motivations are not made as clear but he was holding his brother's face to the fire pretty early on so I think it can be inferred he had a sadistic streak). Cersci is pretty close to these in a "Mean Girls" kind of way though she does seem to motivated at least somewhat by love for or hopes for the success of her children.
Tywin's primary motivation always seems to be restoring the reputations and fortune of his house as one of the great houses of Westeros. He felt his father brought the house to the brink of ruin. I think all of things listed here were done in furtherance of these ends.
Littlefinger had a similar motivation except his house was never a great one. He was trying to advance in a class structure which is pretty hard to advance in. Plus, he had the added motivation of his love for Cat which I think was genuine. And the fact that his unborn child with Lysa was pretty much aborted by his wife's father. I think he wanted to advance to as high as station a he could and was hoping to end up with Cat somehow or now that she's undead, with her daughter.
On the other hand, it seems to me that characters like Ramsey, Joffrey and the Mountain were motivated by some inner desire to inflict pain on others and they seem to enjoy it. (The Mountain' motivations are not made as clear but he was holding his brother's face to the fire pretty early on so I think it can be inferred he had a sadistic streak). Cersci is pretty close to these in a "Mean Girls" kind of way though she does seem to motivated at least somewhat by love for or hopes for the success of her children.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:14 am to Hugo Stiglitz
Good list, throw in the Lord of Bones maybe?
also
I think she's just the incredibly crazy
also
quote:
*Lysa Tulley
I think she's just the incredibly crazy
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:15 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I'd say Theon is a "It's Complicated" character.
frick that, he's in the "I wish was dead already" category. Theon sucks and sucks hard
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:23 am to Tiger1242
Manderly has sent Davos after the Stark boys. We know Bran is north of the wall. Where is Rickon and Osha? I've heard Skagos, but that seems unlikely to me.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:24 am to Tiger1242
Why is Varys on the "bad" list?
We are not really sure about his interactions with his "little birds". He did have some of them kill Kevan Lannister but we are not sure they weren't predisposed to that.
We really do not know about his motives, or his treatment of the Mad King.
We are not really sure about his interactions with his "little birds". He did have some of them kill Kevan Lannister but we are not sure they weren't predisposed to that.
We really do not know about his motives, or his treatment of the Mad King.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:28 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
Where is Rickon and Osha? I've heard Skagos, but that seems unlikely to me.
That is where they are rumored to be. someone saw Rickon with unicorns in a dream. Unicorns are supposed to live on Skagos.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:35 am to Tiger1242
Yeah. While Theon gets some sympathy from me for the huge amount of physical and mental torture he's undergone, and while I don't think he enjoys inflicting pain and death for the sake of inflicting them, I'm not sure he's done much "good" as least so far. I think he's primarily been immature and incompetent.
What about Ilyn Payne? Was he just doing his duty to his lords? There is a line in there somewhere that he "lives just for the killing" or something like that.
I'd like to delve into the Freys but I think I'd ramble and go on a bit long about them. The one word that comes to mind about them for me is "petty".
What about Ilyn Payne? Was he just doing his duty to his lords? There is a line in there somewhere that he "lives just for the killing" or something like that.
I'd like to delve into the Freys but I think I'd ramble and go on a bit long about them. The one word that comes to mind about them for me is "petty".
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:43 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
Where is Rickon and Osha?
This has got me wondering, who do you think are some of the characters, who are either alive or not confirmed dead, that you think we will never see again?
I think Osha may be one
Obvious ones are people like Hot Pie
Maybe Illiryio? But I imagine he'll have something else to do.
A few of the Sand Snakes, maybe Myrcella? But I guess she'll be around, at the least someone will kill her and we'll hear about it
eta: Oh and Benjen Stark
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 9:44 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:51 am to Hugo Stiglitz
I don't consider cersei to be bad. She is doing everything in her power to keep her family safe.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 9:58 am to Evilevox
quote:
I don't consider cersei to be bad.
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