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Started By
Message
re: Chronologically LOST (SPOILERS)
Posted on 2/12/13 at 10:28 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 2/12/13 at 10:28 am to OMLandshark
Ben was never special. He was never acknowledged by Jacob as the true leader of the island. He chose to purge the Dharma Initiative after murdering his own father. He stole Alex from Russo when she was just an infant. He manipulated and lied to everyone. He kidnapped Jack, Kate and Sawyer, and probably would have killed Kate and Sawyer if Jack had not helped them escape. Eventually, he murdered Locke so he could get back to the island (one of the saddest scenes imo).
Sure, Jacob could have interfered in Ben's life at an early age and would have caused him to grow up to be a nice man, but like I said Ben was never special so why should he have done this? It's like asking why God doesn't help those who eventually become murderers. Jacob gives the people who come to the island free will without interfering. Ben has no one to blame but himself for becoming the liar, manipulator and murderer that he truly is.
Sure, Jacob could have interfered in Ben's life at an early age and would have caused him to grow up to be a nice man, but like I said Ben was never special so why should he have done this? It's like asking why God doesn't help those who eventually become murderers. Jacob gives the people who come to the island free will without interfering. Ben has no one to blame but himself for becoming the liar, manipulator and murderer that he truly is.
1
Posted on 2/12/13 at 10:57 am to Ooh Wee Ooh
quote:
He stole Alex from Russo when she was just an infant.
I don't see this as a bad thing. Rousseau was in no shape to raise a kid. Ben was merely child services of the Island, not to mention he saved her from the wrath of Widmore.
quote:
He manipulated and lied to everyone.
Probably more initially due to instructions from Jacob and Richard.
quote:
He kidnapped Jack, Kate and Sawyer, and probably would have killed Kate and Sawyer if Jack had not helped them escape. Eventually, he murdered Locke so he could get back to the island (one of the saddest scenes imo).
This is in the middle of his downward spiral.
quote:
Sure, Jacob could have interfered in Ben's life at an early age and would have caused him to grow up to be a nice man, but like I said Ben was never special so why should he have done this?
I don't see why Jacob doesn't develop a relationship with everyone on the Island. He's still human. I just think Jacob gets his jollies off by having people blow each other to hell. Jacob ran a fricked up cultish operation. When Ben at the very end of the series says "That was the way Jacob ran things. There is certainly a better way", he was right. I think Ben was Jacob's ultimate pawn and Ben of course resented him for it, and he certainly didn't want Hurley to do things the same way Jacob did things.
quote:
It's like asking why God doesn't help those who eventually become murderers.
Honestly, Jacob is pretty much the person that Christopher Hitchens and George Carlin had in mind if God was an actual person.
quote:
Jacob gives the people who come to the island free will without interfering. Ben has no one to blame but himself for becoming the liar, manipulator and murderer that he truly is.
bullshite, especially when his counterpart certainly isn't playing that game. MIB clearly saw from the start how Jacob was ignoring him, so MIB kept breaking Ben's faith in Jacob repeatably. All Jacob had to do was summon Ben and explain what the hell was really going on, and things would have been fine from that point on. Instead he's cold, distant, and doesn't give a shite what happens to Ben. Ben was right that Jacob didn't give a damn that he sacrificed everything for him, including his own daughter. Jacob was a Grade-A douche.
Posted on 2/12/13 at 11:48 am to OMLandshark
quote:Why couldn't have Ben also brought in Russo to their camp? Instead he just steals her daughter one night and leaves her to roam the jungle for 16 years.
I don't see this as a bad thing. Rousseau was in no shape to raise a kid. Ben was merely child services of the Island, not to mention he saved her from the wrath of Widmore.
quote:
I don't see why Jacob doesn't develop a relationship with everyone on the Island. He's still human. I just think Jacob gets his jollies off by having people blow each other to hell. Jacob ran a fricked up cultish operation. When Ben at the very end of the series says "That was the way Jacob ran things. There is certainly a better way", he was right.
quote:Jacob never wanted to interefere with the lives of those who were brought to the island, because he wanted to see the true nature of humanity. It was always about the test of good versus evil. He would bring people to the island to try to prove that men are not as corrupt and bad as "mother" said. His brother wanted to prove him wrong (and also get off the island) so he would twist and corrupt the minds of those on the island. This game proved that the weak are easily corrupted, just as Ben was. Like in real life, we are tempted by evil but it is ultimately up to ourselves to be good.
MIB clearly saw from the start how Jacob was ignoring him, so MIB kept breaking Ben's faith in Jacob repeatably. All Jacob had to do was summon Ben and explain what the hell was really going on, and things would have been fine from that point on. Instead he's cold, distant, and doesn't give a shite what happens to Ben. Ben was right that Jacob didn't give a damn that he sacrificed everything for him, including his own daughter. Jacob was a Grade-A douche.
This post was edited on 2/12/13 at 11:53 am
Posted on 2/12/13 at 12:09 pm to Ooh Wee Ooh
quote:
Why couldn't have Ben also brought in Russo to their camp? Instead he just steals her daughter one night and leaves her to roam the jungle for 16 years.
Check
Posted on 2/12/13 at 12:17 pm to Ooh Wee Ooh
quote:
Why couldn't have Ben also brought in Russo to their camp?
Because she's fricking crazy and would almost certainly try to kill them all.
quote:
Jacob never wanted to interefere with the lives of those who were brought to the island, because he wanted to see the true nature of humanity. It was always about the test of good versus evil.
Well, whenever you have Satan at their back constantly tempting them, and good just sits back eating fish and doing nothing, evil typically wins.
quote:
He would bring people to the island to try to prove that men are not as corrupt and bad as "mother" said.
And what a wonderful point he proved by people constantly trying to kill each other, and him egging it on.
quote:
His brother wanted to prove him wrong (and also get off the island) so he would twist and corrupt the minds of those on the island. This game proved that the weak are easily corrupted, just as Ben was. Like in real life, we are tempted by evil but it is ultimately up to ourselves to be good.
Well let to top it off that Jacob's motives make no sense since he had no outside influence aside from his mother and brother.
Posted on 2/12/13 at 12:24 pm to OMLandshark
You realize that she is crazy because he stole her child and she has been on and island by herself for 16ish years, right?? I am willing to bet that she would be a lot less "crazy" had they taken her in.
Posted on 2/12/13 at 12:28 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote:
You realize that she is crazy because he stole her child and she has been on and island by herself for 16ish years, right?? I am willing to bet that she would be a lot less "crazy" had they taken her in.
She was also nuts at the time because she killed her whole crew, which happened before Alex's birth. I wouldn't want to bring that nutso into my group if I could help it.
This post was edited on 2/12/13 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 2/12/13 at 12:31 pm to OMLandshark
quote:^ this. God (whatever God(s) you want to talk about), while hands off in our world today, did not just leave humans to fend for themselves he/they provided a set of instructions and codes to live by.
Well, whenever you have Satan at their back constantly tempting them, and good just sits back eating fish and doing nothing, evil typically wins.
Jacob was just an a-hole.
Posted on 2/12/13 at 12:38 pm to OMLandshark
quote:She wasn't crazy when she first landed on the island. Her crew was corrupted and tried to kill her. She was crazy after having her daughter taken and left in the jungle for so long. Claire was sane when she got to the island and when Aaron was taken she went crazy after only 2 years.
Because she's fricking crazy and would almost certainly try to kill them all.
quote:
Well, whenever you have Satan at their back constantly tempting them, and good just sits back eating fish and doing nothing, evil typically wins.
I agree with this, but it's how Jacob wanted fate to play out. quote:How was he egging those on the island to murder eachother?
And what a wonderful point he proved by people constantly trying to kill each other, and him egging it on.
quote:His motive was that men are not all corrupt and bad. He brings humans to the island to test this theory. Why does he need outside influence?
Jacob's motives make no sense since he had no outside influence aside from his mother and brother.
Posted on 2/12/13 at 12:53 pm to Ooh Wee Ooh
quote:
His motive was that men are not all corrupt and bad. He brings humans to the island to test this theory. Why does he need outside influence?
How many people did he need to find that weren't corrupt and bad before he decided that his theory was sound?
It seems like he had plenty of examples of people being both good and corrupt.
Posted on 2/12/13 at 12:58 pm to Ooh Wee Ooh
quote:
His motive was that men are not all corrupt and bad. He brings humans to the island to test this theory. Why does he need outside influence?
Pretty much every opinion you have is due to outside influence. Jacob wasn't exposed to the outside world in his youth and only had his mother feeding him lies. There was really no reason for him to not believe his mother and brother's view of the world.
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