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re: Beauty and the Beast thoughts and discussions
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:33 am to AUveritas
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:33 am to AUveritas
quote:
Without resorting to personal opinion and other subjective standards, please explain how you define "decent". This is the ultimate folly of atheism. As Dostoevsky famously pointed out, if there is no God then everything is permissible. After all, if right and wrong become a matter of personal and social opinions, nothing is ever objectively wrong.
Right and wrong are a matter of social opinions. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that slavery was considered acceptable and normal. As was lynching, burning people at the stake, and gladiator fights to the death.
Pretty much every atheist I know is a very good person who actually do far more to help others than most of the Christians I know. The atheist I know help others without questions or stipulations. The Christians I know that actually help others who not help "certain kinds of people". Generally people who are exactly like them.
An atheist does a good deed because he feels morally obligated to do so. A Christian does a good deed expecting g to be rewarded. Who is really the better person?
3
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:40 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
I have always found that the angry ones are the ones who know they are rejecting truth, but still choose to reject it because they don't want to admit they are wrong. They usually grow out of that.
I only get angry about religion when fricktards like yourself talk about gay people like they have some kind of disease. I know a lot of LGBT people and care about many of them. You start acting shitty towards them, in going to bring up how pathetically ignorant you are for believing in the mythology garbage.
The funny thing is, I've always found that those who openly preach their bullshite religions, are the ones who really don't believe it.
This post was edited on 3/21/17 at 11:42 am
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:41 am to AshLSU
You proved my point and didn't answer my question at the same time. Tell me what is good and decent without resorting to using your opinions. Give me objective proof of what is good. Tell me why Hitler was bad without using your opinion as justification.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:43 am to AshLSU
quote:
An atheist does a good deed because he feels morally obligated to do so. A Christian does a good deed expecting g to be rewarded. Who is really the better person?
i understand your sentiment, but a christian does a good deed, knowing there is no reward for it. salvation comes at no cost and no deed can earn it.
at least, that's the way i understand the Bible. i'm not taking away from your overall point as there's truth there, but i think that only misguided christianity is seeking reward for good deeds.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:48 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
This is how children act when they don't have a real argument.
No, children believe in fairytales. Like the one you believe it about Jesus even though his "story" was stolen almost word for word from the Egyptian god Horus.
Generally when people have as big of a problem with homosexuality as you express that you do, it's because they are struggling with their own homosexual feelings. This is a known coping mechanism.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:51 am to Displaced
quote:
We get it. You're one of those hip atheists. Why are you so angry though?
Not an atheist. I just know that religion is a human imagined construct and has no basis for reality.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:53 am to AUveritas
quote:
Without resorting to personal opinion and other subjective standards, please explain how you define "decent". This is the ultimate folly of atheism. As Dostoevsky famously pointed out, if there is no God then everything is permissible. After all, if right and wrong become a matter of personal and social opinions, nothing is ever objectively wrong.
Sam Harris wrote an entire book about this very premise and argues why there is an active objective morality written in human beings and that God is not needed for it. The book is titled "The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values". It's a very good read and I recommend it highly.
Here's the synopsis:
quote:
Sam Harris’s first book, The End of Faith, ignited a worldwide debate about the validity of religion. In the aftermath, Harris discovered that most people—from religious fundamentalists to non-believing scientists—agree on one point: science has nothing to say on the subject of human values. Indeed, our failure to address questions of meaning and morality through science has now become the primary justification for religious faith.
In this highly controversial book, Sam Harris seeks to link morality to the rest of human knowledge. Defining morality in terms of human and animal well-being, Harris argues that science can do more than tell how we are; it can, in principle, tell us how we ought to be. In his view, moral relativism is simply false—and comes at an increasing cost to humanity. And the intrusions of religion into the sphere of human values can be finally repelled: for just as there is no such thing as Christian physics or Muslim algebra, there can be no Christian or Muslim morality. Using his expertise in philosophy and neuroscience, along with his experience on the front lines of our “culture wars,” Harris delivers a game-changing book about the future of science and about the real basis of human cooperation.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:53 am to AshLSU
quote:
I only get angry about religion when fricktards like yourself talk about gay people like they have some kind of disease.
You will not be able to point to one statement I have made where I have done this.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 11:57 am to AshLSU
quote:
Like the one you believe it about Jesus even though his "story" was stolen almost word for word from the Egyptian god Horus.
That's been soundly refuted and most atheists dropped that argument from their repertoire years ago. In fact, most atheist intellectuals now concede Jesus was an actual historical person.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:01 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Sam Harris wrote an entire book about this very premise and argues why there is an active objective morality written in human beings and that God is not needed for it. The book is titled "The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values". It's a very good read and I recommend it highly.
I'll check into that. Of course, there's no way for me to address his arguments until I do. At first glance, I'm dubious in the claim that there's a scientific basis for metaphysical truths. Most scientists I imagine would balk at the claim that it's within their abilities to study such.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:01 pm to AUveritas
quote:
In fact, most atheist intellectuals now concede Jesus was an actual historical person.
Yeah, but much of Horus's backstory is very similar to Jesus, like walking on water, the virgin birth, feeding 5,000, and his resurrection. I have little doubt that Jesus actually existed, but I question how much of it is true. At worst, I think Jesus can be seen as a great philosopher. I do not have the same opinions of Muhammad.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:02 pm to AshLSU
quote:
Right and wrong are a matter of social opinions. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that slavery was considered acceptable and normal. As was lynching, burning people at the stake, and gladiator fights to the death.
This is more of an argument against prevailing opinions being the basis for morality than it is for it. I'm sure you ignore the role of Christians in putting an end to these practices.
This post was edited on 3/21/17 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:09 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
the virgin birth
Isis was not a virgin.
quote:
like walking on water,
The only mention of Horus and water is when he was ripped to pieces by a crocodile.
quote:
his resurrection
Not a bodily resurrection
quote:
feeding 5,000
Not familiar with that claim
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:10 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
At worst, I think Jesus can be seen as a great philosopher.
I mean, if you don't think He was being truthful with His claims, then he is far worse than merely a "great philosopher."
quote:
I do not have the same opinions of Muhammad.
Muhammad was a truly terrible person who did some terrible things. I'm amazed that so many people put so much stock in his teachings. I can at least understand getting behind some of the other world religions that were founded by somewhat decent scholars and teachers, but Muhammad was not one of those.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:14 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
I mean, if you don't think He was being truthful with His claims, then he is far worse than merely a "great philosopher."
To play devil's advocate, I would think the argument would be that He didn't actually make those claims. It was a fabrication by NT authors.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:14 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
I mean, if you don't think He was being truthful with His claims, then he is far worse than merely a "great philosopher."
He could have been truthful regardless as he saw it. I don't think Jesus was a con man at all and truly meant what he preached. Just because he was possibly wrong about that doesn't make him a bad philosopher.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:16 pm to AUveritas
quote:
To play devil's advocate, I would think the argument would be that He didn't actually make those claims. It was a fabrication by NT authors.
I guess I could see that. I would say someone who goes that far just simply doesn't want to believe. That would be unfortunate.
This post was edited on 3/21/17 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:18 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
I guess I could see that. I would say someone who goes that far just simply doesn't want to believe. That would be unfortunate
It's a claim I think is fairly easy to refute. Many atheists (like many Christians) rely largely on what they're told by people they admire and do little to research claims on their own.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:26 pm to AUveritas
Many people are scared to challenge their own beliefs. I don't understand that.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:31 pm to imjustafatkid
Has Beauty and the Beast even been mentioned once these last five pages?
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