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Would American Pharoah have won the Triple Crown in any other year since 2000?
Posted on 6/7/15 at 11:01 am
Posted on 6/7/15 at 11:01 am
I started casually following horse racing around 2002 and I was debating with some friends that while I thought American Pharoah was a really good horse, I feel like his competition is what separated him from some of the other horses that won the first two legs of the Triple Crown. I was hoping maybe some more seasoned followers of the sport could give their opinion.
I did a little bit of research as far as the winning times of the Triple Crown races, I know there are factors such as weather and how hard a horse was pushed that effects the times, so these are not a definite in any way.
Kentucky Derby Winners since 2000
1) 2001 Monarchos 1:59.97
2) 2000 Fusaichi Pegasus 2:01.00
3) 2002 War Emblem 2:01.13
4) 2003 Funny Cide 2:01.19
5) 2006 Barbaro 2:01.36
6) 2008 Big Brown 2:01.82
7) 2012 I'll Have Another 2:01.83
8) 2011 Animal Kingdom 2:02.04
9) 2007 Street Sense 2:02.17
10) 2009 Mine That Bird 2:02.66
11) 2005 Giacomo 2:02.75
12) 2013 Orb 2:02.89
13) 2015 American Pharoah † 2:03.02
14) 2014 California Chrome 2:03.66
15) 2004 Smarty Jones 2:04.06
16) 2010 Super Saver 2:04.45
Preakness Winners since 2000
1) 2007 Curlin 1:53.46
2) 2006 Bernardini 1:54.65
3) 2014 California Chrome 1:54.84
4) 2008 Big Brown 1:54.86
5) 2005 Afleet Alex 1:55.04
6) 2009 Rachel Alexandra‡ 1:55.08
7) 2001 Point Given 1:55.40
8) 2010 Lookin At Lucky 1:55.47
9) 2004 Smarty Jones 1:55.59
10) 2003 Funny Cide 1:55.61
11) 2012 I'll Have Another 1:55.94
12) 2000 Red Bullet 1:56.00
13) 2002 War Emblem 1:56.40
14) 2011 Shackleford 1:56.47
15) 2013 Oxbow 1:57.54
16) 2015 American Pharoah † 1:58.46
Belmont Stakes Winners since 2000
1) 2001 Point Given 2:26.56
2) 2015 American Pharoah † 2:26.65
3) 2004 Birdstone 2:27.50
4) 2009 Summer Bird 2:27.54
5) 2006 Jazil 2:27.86
6) 2003 Empire Maker 2:28.26
7) 2014 Tonalist 2:28.52
8) 2007 Rags to Riches ‡ 2:28.74
9) 2005 Afleet Alex 2:28.75
10) 2008 Da'Tara 2:29.65
11) 2002 Sarava 2:29.71
12) 2012 Union Rags 2:30.42
13) 2013 Palace Malice 2:30.70
14) 2011 Ruler on Ice 2:30.88
15) 2000 Commendable 2:31.19
16) 2010 Drosselmeyer 2:31.57
I did a little bit of research as far as the winning times of the Triple Crown races, I know there are factors such as weather and how hard a horse was pushed that effects the times, so these are not a definite in any way.
Kentucky Derby Winners since 2000
1) 2001 Monarchos 1:59.97
2) 2000 Fusaichi Pegasus 2:01.00
3) 2002 War Emblem 2:01.13
4) 2003 Funny Cide 2:01.19
5) 2006 Barbaro 2:01.36
6) 2008 Big Brown 2:01.82
7) 2012 I'll Have Another 2:01.83
8) 2011 Animal Kingdom 2:02.04
9) 2007 Street Sense 2:02.17
10) 2009 Mine That Bird 2:02.66
11) 2005 Giacomo 2:02.75
12) 2013 Orb 2:02.89
13) 2015 American Pharoah † 2:03.02
14) 2014 California Chrome 2:03.66
15) 2004 Smarty Jones 2:04.06
16) 2010 Super Saver 2:04.45
Preakness Winners since 2000
1) 2007 Curlin 1:53.46
2) 2006 Bernardini 1:54.65
3) 2014 California Chrome 1:54.84
4) 2008 Big Brown 1:54.86
5) 2005 Afleet Alex 1:55.04
6) 2009 Rachel Alexandra‡ 1:55.08
7) 2001 Point Given 1:55.40
8) 2010 Lookin At Lucky 1:55.47
9) 2004 Smarty Jones 1:55.59
10) 2003 Funny Cide 1:55.61
11) 2012 I'll Have Another 1:55.94
12) 2000 Red Bullet 1:56.00
13) 2002 War Emblem 1:56.40
14) 2011 Shackleford 1:56.47
15) 2013 Oxbow 1:57.54
16) 2015 American Pharoah † 1:58.46
Belmont Stakes Winners since 2000
1) 2001 Point Given 2:26.56
2) 2015 American Pharoah † 2:26.65
3) 2004 Birdstone 2:27.50
4) 2009 Summer Bird 2:27.54
5) 2006 Jazil 2:27.86
6) 2003 Empire Maker 2:28.26
7) 2014 Tonalist 2:28.52
8) 2007 Rags to Riches ‡ 2:28.74
9) 2005 Afleet Alex 2:28.75
10) 2008 Da'Tara 2:29.65
11) 2002 Sarava 2:29.71
12) 2012 Union Rags 2:30.42
13) 2013 Palace Malice 2:30.70
14) 2011 Ruler on Ice 2:30.88
15) 2000 Commendable 2:31.19
16) 2010 Drosselmeyer 2:31.57
This post was edited on 6/7/15 at 11:04 am
7
Posted on 6/7/15 at 11:04 am to dgtiger3
It was slop at the Preakness
Posted on 6/7/15 at 11:04 am to dgtiger3
No because it wasn't alive in most of those years.
Posted on 6/7/15 at 11:07 am to BayouBengals03
Yeah I was driving through Baltimore as the Preakness was going on and it was pouring and making traffic at a standstill
Posted on 6/7/15 at 11:07 am to Fun Bunch
Afleet Alex was good
Posted on 6/7/15 at 11:08 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
No because it wasn't alive in most of those years.
Posted on 6/7/15 at 11:17 am to dgtiger3
FWIW, Bob Baffert has repeatedly said Point Given is the best horse he's ever trained. If it wasn't for the WTF loss at the Kentucky Derby, he might be remembered as the best horse since Secretariat. And the Belmont Stakes really seem to show the overall quality of a horse. American Pharoah's Belmont time was the fifth fastest since Secretariat so I think that shows he is one of the greatest horses of all-time.
Posted on 6/7/15 at 12:02 pm to dgtiger3
Big brown was one of the best horses I've seen.
Posted on 6/7/15 at 12:03 pm to Macintosh504
quote:
American Pharoah's Belmont time was the fifth fastest since Secretariat so I think that shows he is one of the greatest horses of all-time.
I'll agree with that, haven't seen a horse with that much gas at the end of the Belmont in a long time.
quote:
Big brown was one of the best horses I've seen
Agreed.
Posted on 6/7/15 at 12:21 pm to dgtiger3
quote:
16) 2015 American Pharoah † 1:58.46
Not impressive on the face, but impressive given the condition of the tract that day.
Posted on 6/7/15 at 2:20 pm to dgtiger3
AP never had any real pressure. He could have had a much better time.
Posted on 6/7/15 at 3:00 pm to dgtiger3
Many wondered with his sprinting lineage whether he had the chops to truly complete the crown.. He showed well at the Belmont that he's a deserving Champion, putting away the race down the stretch.. You can also throw out his Preakness time with the slop they ran in.. He's not one of the greatest horses but one that seemed to get better throughout the chase..
Posted on 6/7/15 at 6:38 pm to TROLA
he wins every year expect 2001 (point given) and 2007 (curlin, street sense, rags to riches hard spun, any given saturday, etc). he's better than big brown and he's not oin steriods like big brown was
i could give a flying frick about the final times. horses aren't running against stop watches they are running aginist other horses.
going into the triple crown everyone in racing was saying this was the deepest crop of 3YO's since at lest 2007 and it was. Durtmond, Firing Line, Upstart, etc are all really really good horses. Pharoah is just running them in the ground
i could give a flying frick about the final times. horses aren't running against stop watches they are running aginist other horses.
going into the triple crown everyone in racing was saying this was the deepest crop of 3YO's since at lest 2007 and it was. Durtmond, Firing Line, Upstart, etc are all really really good horses. Pharoah is just running them in the ground
This post was edited on 6/7/15 at 7:16 pm
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