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re: Shelby Miller trade looking good so far.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 1:32 am to kilo
Posted on 5/6/15 at 1:32 am to kilo
The cards have been hot recently but that success won't last. They really aren't that good. The Braves aren't very good this year but that's by design. They are pushing for 2017 with the new ballpark.
3
Posted on 5/6/15 at 7:51 am to motorbreath
The cards would be good this year with or without Heyward. Just as the Braves would be bad with or without Heyward.
If you think Heyward is helping you guys win then great. Most people would look at his stats tho and really question why you think that. If his attitude is winning you games then you have a good thing going.
If you think Heyward is helping you guys win then great. Most people would look at his stats tho and really question why you think that. If his attitude is winning you games then you have a good thing going.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 8:19 am to motorbreath
quote:
The Braves aren't very good this year but that's by design
Posted on 5/6/15 at 8:41 am to redfieldk717
You can laugh all you want but you're just showing your ignorance. They sold off a lot of their talent to build up the minor league and cut payroll in preparation of making a splash in 2017 when the new ballpark opens. There will be an increased payroll as well as the hopes that some of the prospects acquired over the last year will be ready. Have you been under a rock for the last year or do you not pay attention to anything that's going on with the Braves?
Posted on 5/6/15 at 8:43 am to redfieldk717
Really not sure why you'd laugh at that. If you can't readily admit the Braves are in rebuild mode then you shouldn't be in a baseball conversation.
Certainly not taken seriously anyway.
Certainly not taken seriously anyway.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 9:09 am to volfan30
quote:
We do not need him to be our ace but he can be a pretty solid #3 for us
I think this is a more reasonable assessment of where he should fit in a rotation and he is more than capable of filling that role
Posted on 5/6/15 at 9:12 am to motorbreath
quote:
The cards have been hot recently but that success won't last. They really aren't that good. The Braves aren't very good this year but that's by design. They are pushing for 2017 with the new ballpark.
What you said about the Braves is fine but how do you figure our success won't last? We ve basically been playing playoff level baseball for 15 years now and we still have another 4 or 5 years out of our key players (Holliday, Yadi, Wainwright)
Posted on 5/6/15 at 9:36 am to Wishnitwas1998
I'm just talking about this year. The loss of Wainwright will be huge. Especially if the cards make the playoffs. Even during the World Series seasons of the past 10 years, the cards were never a great team, but a solid team who caught a few breaks and got hot at the right time. That's not a knock against them. That's just sort of how teams have been winning championships in the last 10-15 years. The Giants fit that same mold during their championship runs. IMO, even with a healthy Wainwright, the cards aren't as good this year as their championship teams of the past, which means they'll need to catch every break and with wainwright going down it's just a sign that things aren't going to go their way.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 9:39 am to motorbreath
The cards probably would have never made the trade if Taveras hadnt died. I do think the Braves have a chance to win the trade but I'm not sure that was ever the point for St. Louis. They were in a bind.
Shelby also has the chance to rquire TJ surgery within the next year as well. I wish we had kept him, but i completely understood why we didnt.
Shelby also has the chance to rquire TJ surgery within the next year as well. I wish we had kept him, but i completely understood why we didnt.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 10:17 am to hiltacular
quote:
The cards would be good this year with or without Heyward. Just as the Braves would be bad with or without Heyward.
Exactly. The Braves aren't gonna make the playoffs. Keeping Heyward wouldn't have changed that. However, the Braves new brass is smart enough to realize that you don't pay $15 million/year for a good attitude and right field defense. The Cardinals are winning DESPITE Heyward's complete ineptness at the plate. They didn't need Miller to win, but they sure as heck didn't expect to pay $8 million for a good attitude.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 1:46 pm to motorbreath
Ehhhh I get what you are saying but I do take issue with saying this team isn't as good as out championship teams. 2011 for instance, wasn't really that great of a team. They just got hot at the right time. 2006 team was better than 2011 but slumped pretty bad heading into the postseason. 2004/2005 were both better than 2006.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 1:50 pm to Dale Murphy
quote:
Exactly. The Braves aren't gonna make the playoffs. Keeping Heyward wouldn't have changed that. However, the Braves new brass is smart enough to realize that you don't pay $15 million/year for a good attitude and right field defense. The Cardinals are winning DESPITE Heyward's complete ineptness at the plate. They didn't need Miller to win, but they sure as heck didn't expect to pay $8 million for a good attitude.
He hasn't been good and obviously his numbers aren't very good but he hasn't been "completely inept" as you put it and has actually came through for us in some big spots
Also his base running and defense have been HUGE
Posted on 5/6/15 at 1:54 pm to crimsonian
I don't know what people were expecting, frankly. Miller is a legitimate talent with great stuff. In a few years, he could easily be an ace. The Cards got rid of him because they had a glut of young pitchers and needed a bat. It was a win-win for both teams and those who were laughing at the Braves for the trade were idiots then and idiots now.
Heyward is struggling, but I would venture to guess he will turn it around sometime. It will end up being a good trade for both clubs.
Heyward is struggling, but I would venture to guess he will turn it around sometime. It will end up being a good trade for both clubs.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 1:54 pm to Wishnitwas1998
quote:
but he hasn't been "completely inept" as you put it
relatively speaking, yes he has been.
For all you advanced stats nerds, his WAR is -3. That's worse than replacement level. May be the lowest RF WAR in the league right now. I'm too lazy to look that up, though.
In other words, those few times he's done something positive? There would be much more of those positives by calling up some minor leaguer with a 0 WAR.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 2:43 pm to Dale Murphy
As I'm sure you are aware WAR only tells part of the story, at least IMO but you would have to be aware of our particular minor league situation to judge on his replacement value which right now yes we would be in ok shape without him bc Bourjos has woke up but we had no way of knowing that coming into the season also Gridchuk has missed about half the season so far and while he's showed promise in limited time he has in no way proven he will be an everyday performer and certainly doesn't provide the base running/defense that Heyward does
I don't know what people were expecting, frankly. Miller is a legitimate talent with great stuff. In a few years, he could easily be an ace. The Cards got rid of him because they had a glut of young pitchers and needed a bat. It was a win-win for both teams and those who were laughing at the Braves for the trade were idiots then and idiots now.
Heyward is struggling, but I would venture to guess he will turn it around sometime. It will end up being a good trade for both clubs.
^^^this
I don't know what people were expecting, frankly. Miller is a legitimate talent with great stuff. In a few years, he could easily be an ace. The Cards got rid of him because they had a glut of young pitchers and needed a bat. It was a win-win for both teams and those who were laughing at the Braves for the trade were idiots then and idiots now.
Heyward is struggling, but I would venture to guess he will turn it around sometime. It will end up being a good trade for both clubs.
^^^this
This post was edited on 5/6/15 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 5/6/15 at 2:55 pm to Wishnitwas1998
quote:
As I'm sure you are aware WAR only tells part of the story
I'm actually as anti-advanced stats as you'll find. But I was just making a point. The point is that as a Braves fan I have been waiting for a long time for him to turn it around. Yet, he hasn't been able to do so. Granted, there's still a small chance that may happen but I would be surprised if he does. And I was using the minor league player as an example. The point being that the Cards could have gotten a much better return on Miller and company than JH. The Cards may still win the WS even without a Heyward rebound. But in my opinion, it would still be in spite of him, not because of him.
Posted on 5/6/15 at 3:29 pm to Dale Murphy
That's an understandable opinion
I hope both of our fan bases see how well this discussion went without either of us trolling/calling the other a dumbass/motherfricker and take note for the future
The Braves have always been my second favorite MLB team
I hope both of our fan bases see how well this discussion went without either of us trolling/calling the other a dumbass/motherfricker and take note for the future
The Braves have always been my second favorite MLB team
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