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Started By
Message
re: rebuilding an NFL franchise...grab QB,QB,QB
Posted on 1/15/14 at 10:43 pm to LSUTIGER in TEXAS
Posted on 1/15/14 at 10:43 pm to LSUTIGER in TEXAS
quote:
he can't get his career going bc he's not any good. Like Sam Bradford, if you can't tell by now, he's not going to make it
Wow.
Dont disagree about just Locker, I disagree about Bradford too. Im not saying they are future top 10 QBs. But they are solid NFL starters. And its not that you said they arent elite QBs. Its that you said they arent going to make it??
Bradford has had a diff OC every single year hes been in the NFL. Which means he had to learn an entire new offense, every year. Which takes away from his development. You learn the offense first, then you develop your game inside that offense. Learning a new offense every off season has absolutely killed him. And none of his coaches have been any good either. Now hes got Fisher, hopefully that will bring some stability for Bradford. And hopefully they continue getting him some help at the skill player spots.
In 5 games Bradford threw for 1,687 yards on 61% and 14 TDs to 4 INTs.
And Locker was having his best season by far this year. Went 4-2, threw for 1,256 yards on 61% and 8 TDs passing and 2 rushing to 4 INTs. Was off to a great start, then got hurt.
Im not saying that they are future top 10 QBs. But Im also not going to say that they cant make it. Both were having their best year in the NFL and looked to be progressing, then both got hurt. The jury is still out on both of them.
This post was edited on 1/15/14 at 11:26 pm
4
Posted on 1/15/14 at 10:48 pm to KG5989
yeah, darren mcfadden is a great runner but no thanks. franchise QBs play hurt...bradford and locker are to mcfadden
Posted on 1/15/14 at 10:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
Fair enough. Baltimore made a real stretch trying to make Flacco an elite paid player. Eli is really jekyll and hyde. Sometimes he looks like it; sometimes he doesn't.
I think that decent starting QB's are so scarce in the league that even guys like them have to be treated like franchise QB's. It's necessary to spend a first round pick on the chance to get one because you aren't winning a SB without one. They can be found later in the draft or free agency, but your odds just go down a lot.
If a QB with a reasonable first round grade is there, and the team needs one then that team better pick him imo.
I think that decent starting QB's are so scarce in the league that even guys like them have to be treated like franchise QB's. It's necessary to spend a first round pick on the chance to get one because you aren't winning a SB without one. They can be found later in the draft or free agency, but your odds just go down a lot.
If a QB with a reasonable first round grade is there, and the team needs one then that team better pick him imo.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 10:54 pm to KG5989
quote:
And Locker was having his best season by far this year. Went 3-2
Not to nitpick, but he was actually 4-2 this year.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 11:13 pm to Iona Fan Man
Rodgers didnt play hurt... 
And these werent just little injuries. Torn ACL and Lisfranc fracture. No player plays through those injuries.
And again, they are young. And im much higher on Locker than I am Bradford. I just think that Bradford having so many diff OCs each year has hurt his development. He can be a solid NFL QB. I think Locker can flat out play and be a better than average / good QB. Just needs to stay healthy. And he also has Ken Whisenhunt as his coach now.
Thanks TDawg... fixed it.
And these werent just little injuries. Torn ACL and Lisfranc fracture. No player plays through those injuries.
And again, they are young. And im much higher on Locker than I am Bradford. I just think that Bradford having so many diff OCs each year has hurt his development. He can be a solid NFL QB. I think Locker can flat out play and be a better than average / good QB. Just needs to stay healthy. And he also has Ken Whisenhunt as his coach now.
Thanks TDawg... fixed it.
This post was edited on 1/15/14 at 11:16 pm
Posted on 1/15/14 at 11:35 pm to KG5989
Do you think they (Bradford, locker) are better, worse, or equal to an Alex smith type?
As far as "making it," they are both top 10 picks. If they are not stud, franchise caliber QBs, they are busts and didn't make it, IMO. They might bounce around the league, hold clip boards, and collect nice NFL money, but that's not making it to me. They are graded on their draft position curve
As far as "making it," they are both top 10 picks. If they are not stud, franchise caliber QBs, they are busts and didn't make it, IMO. They might bounce around the league, hold clip boards, and collect nice NFL money, but that's not making it to me. They are graded on their draft position curve
Posted on 1/15/14 at 11:42 pm to KG5989
quote:i remember when this was the only thing keeping Jason Campbell from being Peyton manning. It's unfair, I'm sure given different circumstances things could have turned out differently, but Sam Bradford will never be a top 16 QB(top half QBs in the league). He just isn't good enough. I was a massive Bradford backer back during his draft and looked like genius through his first year when he carried his team to an 8-8 record. But he's regressed since then. He peaked as a rookie as crazy as it sounds. It's just not there. The only reason he's still on the team is his massive, unearned rookie contract that has 1 year left of huge guaranteed money. He'll be gone after next year
I just think that Bradford having so many diff OCs each year has hurt his development
Posted on 1/15/14 at 11:44 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
hell 3 of the past 6 super bowls were won by teams without what i consider franchise QBs
who are the 3? The Steelers, the Ravens, and?? Cant be the Giants because they won twice in the past 6 years. Unless you consider Big Ben a franchise QB and not Eli...
Posted on 1/15/14 at 11:59 pm to KG5989
quote:They've desperately tried to get him skill position help:
Bradford. And hopefully they continue getting him some help at the skill player spots.
2013: 1. Tavon Austin
3. Sted bailey
5 zac Stacy
2012: 2. Brian quick
2. Pead
4. Chris givens
2011: 2. Lance kendricks
3. Austin Pettis
4. Greg salas
2010: 4. Mardy gilyard
Players from before Bradford was drafted: Steven Jackson, Donnie Avery, Danny amendola
Listen, I'm not arguing this is a list of pro bowlers. I'm saying they have invested a ton into getting players to help Bradford. Some have been busts. But I also think their level of play hasn't been raised by the QB, The way I'd expect a franchise QB to elevate his teammate's performance.
This post was edited on 1/16/14 at 12:00 am
Posted on 1/16/14 at 1:12 am to Iona Fan Man
Coaching > QB
Posted on 1/16/14 at 1:35 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
rebuilding an NFL franchise
Linemen, linemen, linemen, linemen.
The fact that this is still overlooked is laughable. Want to make a mediocre QB look great? Give him time to throw. Want to make a mediocre secondary look great? Don't give the QB time to throw. Want a good run game? Better win at the line of scrimmage. Want a good run D? Better win at the line of scrimmage.
Skill players are overpaid. There are very few QBs worth their pay. There are a handful of RBs worth their pay. There are basically 2 or 3 WRs worth their pay.
This post was edited on 1/16/14 at 1:36 am
Posted on 1/16/14 at 8:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
eli and flacco
roth is a franchise QB, but certainly not an elite QB. if you want to pay him elite QB money ($20m/year), then l-o-l
If Roethlisberger is a franchise QB, then Eli is too. They came into the league the same year, both have two Superbowl wins, and not terribly dissimilar stats.
Roethlisberger may be somewhat better on the stat line, and in W-L, but there's no arguing he played on some much better teams than Eli has.
Posted on 1/16/14 at 8:55 am to Flash_Gordon
jim plunkett
dilfer
flacco
brad johnson
doug williams
jef hostetler
mark rypien
superbowl champions
not great qbs
its not THAT important
dilfer
flacco
brad johnson
doug williams
jef hostetler
mark rypien
superbowl champions
not great qbs
its not THAT important
Posted on 1/16/14 at 9:04 am to Iona Fan Man
I agree with you. I'm surprised more teams aren't taking QBs in the 1st 2 rounds with the new CBA. If you pick the wrong one, you can just give up on his arse in 2 years.
For instance, if I was the Jets, it's obvious Geno Smith ain't taking them to the superbowl. Take a new QB.
Teams that should take a QB in the 1st RD IMO:
Raiders
Browns
Texans
Jags
Vikings
Teams that should take a QB in rd 2 or 3
Bills (not sure about Manuel, so take someone to push him)
Tennessee (same with Locker, take someone to push him)
Broncos (need someone to study behind Manning)
Chiefs (Smith isn't long term answer)
Bucs (Glennon isn't the answer IMO)
Cardinals (need replacement for Palmer)
Rams (push Bradford. He may not be answer)
For instance, if I was the Jets, it's obvious Geno Smith ain't taking them to the superbowl. Take a new QB.
Teams that should take a QB in the 1st RD IMO:
Raiders
Browns
Texans
Jags
Vikings
Teams that should take a QB in rd 2 or 3
Bills (not sure about Manuel, so take someone to push him)
Tennessee (same with Locker, take someone to push him)
Broncos (need someone to study behind Manning)
Chiefs (Smith isn't long term answer)
Bucs (Glennon isn't the answer IMO)
Cardinals (need replacement for Palmer)
Rams (push Bradford. He may not be answer)
Posted on 1/16/14 at 9:11 am to SlowFlowPro
I
asinine. I guess you're assuming Eli and Flacco as not franchise.
Eli was pretty fricking good except for this year and his early years considering the lack of weapons. Besides, you can't deny the Giants really lucked into it and had the perfect matchups and luck to get there. I don't know that that is a big enough sample to say, "frick it. you don't need a franchise QB to win a superbowl"
Flacco was incredible last year and pretty franchise worthy, but I get your point.
My point is that QBs like Andy Dalton, Carson Palmer, Tannehill, Schaub, Smith, Glennon , and Bradford will never win superbowls because they can't make the plays.
I know Flacco and eli aren't franchise QBs, but they can make plays and take over a game at their best. The QBs I listed above cannot.
quote:
hell 3 of the past 6 super bowls were won by teams without what i consider franchise QBs
asinine. I guess you're assuming Eli and Flacco as not franchise.
Eli was pretty fricking good except for this year and his early years considering the lack of weapons. Besides, you can't deny the Giants really lucked into it and had the perfect matchups and luck to get there. I don't know that that is a big enough sample to say, "frick it. you don't need a franchise QB to win a superbowl"
Flacco was incredible last year and pretty franchise worthy, but I get your point.
My point is that QBs like Andy Dalton, Carson Palmer, Tannehill, Schaub, Smith, Glennon , and Bradford will never win superbowls because they can't make the plays.
I know Flacco and eli aren't franchise QBs, but they can make plays and take over a game at their best. The QBs I listed above cannot.
Posted on 1/16/14 at 9:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i play in a 16-team league (irl auction) and i drafted 4 TM QBs this year. i straight fricked over 2 teams
How much did you get them for? You didn't lack in other positions?
Posted on 1/16/14 at 9:20 am to oleyeller
quote:
jim plunkett
dilfer
flacco
brad johnson
doug williams
jef hostetler
mark rypien
So 7-9 (I'll even give you Eli and Roethlisberger) out of 47. So approximately 81% of superbowls are won by Franchise/Elite QBs. I'd say that's pretty damn important.
Posted on 1/16/14 at 9:21 am to Moustache
quote:
Bills (not sure about Manuel, so take someone to push him) current coaching staff just drafted him in the first round
Tennessee (same with Locker, take someone to push him)new coaching staff could certainly = new QB
Broncos (need someone to study behind Manning)drafted Brock Osweiler in the second round in 2012, depends on how high they are on him, but not necessary in my opinion
Chiefs (Smith isn't long term answer) Could take a QB later than round 2, Smith did pretty well this season
Bucs (Glennon isn't the answer IMO) Same as Tennessee, new coach - new QB
Cardinals (need replacement for Palmer) Agree
Rams (push Bradford. He may not be answer)agree
I agree with the point over all, that there isn't the money invested anymore, but the stigma still exists. You take a QB first round, you're career is tied to his.
Posted on 1/16/14 at 9:23 am to Moustache
quote:
I guess you're assuming Eli and Flacco as not franchise.
i am not assuming. i am stating that
quote:
Eli was pretty fricking good except for this year
until this year, eli had an on/off year pattern, and he's had 2 "off" years (this one being complete dogshit) in a row
quote:
Flacco was incredible last year
not over the 16-game regular season
he was decisively mediocre
Posted on 1/16/14 at 9:24 am to Moustache
quote:
out if 47
there hasnt been 47 qbs to win the superbowl bud
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