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Started By
Message
re: ‘Not enough support’ among GMs to change ‘Hack-a-Shaq’ rule
Posted on 5/13/15 at 2:57 pm to PrimeTime Money
Posted on 5/13/15 at 2:57 pm to PrimeTime Money
It all goes to the law of averages basically.
For example, the LA clippers have the best offensive efficiency in the league this year at 109.8. AKA, they score 109.8 points every 100 possessions.
Each individual player has a tipping point based on the offensive efficiency of their team to where it's efficient over the course of a significant number of outcomes where it's beneficial for the opponent to send them to the line.
In DeAndre Jordan's case (and coupled with the fact that the Clippers are so efficient) since he 42% from the line it's beneficial for opponents to foul him.
Let's take 1 and 1s out of the equation (but they play a big role) to make it easier. Jordan is a 42% FT shooter, his fake "offensive efficency" is 84.0 which is much less than the clippers OE at 109.8
Offensive Efficency is lower in the playoffs typically and varies depending on the team's defensive prowess (defensive effiency which also plays a role in determining the effectiveness of Hack-a-Shaw)obviously.
Basically, Jordan would need to become a 54.9% FT shooter on average to make hack-a-shaq a worthless enterprise.
At least from my math, I may have done it wrong and I over-simplified it as well.
For example, the LA clippers have the best offensive efficiency in the league this year at 109.8. AKA, they score 109.8 points every 100 possessions.
Each individual player has a tipping point based on the offensive efficiency of their team to where it's efficient over the course of a significant number of outcomes where it's beneficial for the opponent to send them to the line.
In DeAndre Jordan's case (and coupled with the fact that the Clippers are so efficient) since he 42% from the line it's beneficial for opponents to foul him.
Let's take 1 and 1s out of the equation (but they play a big role) to make it easier. Jordan is a 42% FT shooter, his fake "offensive efficency" is 84.0 which is much less than the clippers OE at 109.8
Offensive Efficency is lower in the playoffs typically and varies depending on the team's defensive prowess (defensive effiency which also plays a role in determining the effectiveness of Hack-a-Shaw)obviously.
Basically, Jordan would need to become a 54.9% FT shooter on average to make hack-a-shaq a worthless enterprise.
At least from my math, I may have done it wrong and I over-simplified it as well.
3
Posted on 5/13/15 at 2:59 pm to KosmoCramer
You need a degree in calculus to understand what basketball nuts are talking about.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:00 pm to boom roasted
Not really. It would be a simple formula and all you would have to do is plug and chug.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:00 pm to Mr.Perfect
quote:I agree. Nothing like spending a couple hours watching the hacka strategy. Thrilling basketball.
Good.
shite, I think they should do away with the shot clock. If you can't play good enough defense to force a trap and/or steal the ball, you shouldn't be on the court. You get paid millions to play a game. Screw entertainment. Play better D.
This post was edited on 5/13/15 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:06 pm to Chicken
quote:This creates a nightmare scenario of a team employing their bottom say, three players to waste 18 fouls in the span of a couple minutes. You would have to come up with more rules to curb this gaming of the system, and it would be muddled to the point that we'd wish for the current situation we have now.
Why not let team that is fouled have choice on whether to shoot free throws or take ball in? I know this has been suggested. What is feeling about that?
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:06 pm to Alt26
quote:
If they aren't already, those should be counted as intentional fouls giving the opponent 2 shots and the ball
That's what I never understood as well. I thought all away-from-the-ball fouls were considered that. That would be the fix I would go for. You want to hack him once he touches the ball, all for it, but blatantly running up and hugging the guy as he runs up the court is insane.
I know that they should become better free throw shooters, which I agree with Chris Webber on that part, but they still have to limit this method
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:07 pm to boom roasted
quote:
shite, I think they should do away with the shot clock. If you can't play good enough defense to force a trap and/or steal the ball, you shouldn't be on the court.
This is ridiculous. Games would be so low scoring. Bad teams would slow the game to a snail's crawl to minimize possessions.
Edit: sarcasm. I get it now.
This post was edited on 5/13/15 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:07 pm to ballscaster
quote:I don't follow this reasoning. Why would teams continue to foul?
This creates a nightmare scenario of a team employing their bottom say, three players to waste 18 fouls in the span of a couple minutes.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:08 pm to SwaggerCopter
quote:frick it. It's not about entertainment. You want the ball back? Play better D.
This is ridiculous. Games would be so low scoring. Bad teams would slow the game to a snail's crawl to minimize possessions.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:08 pm to TigerBait2008
quote:
Paid millions of dollars. .learn to shoot free throws its pretty simple..
Oh it's that easy huh? Just put in the time and someone can learn to be a good free throw shooter, while in the NBA.
I believe you underestimate how many free throws you need to shoot to become good at it. By the time you get to the NBA, you're already too far behind.
If you want to say this is a AAU issue in how bigs are trained, ok that's another arguement. But athletes make a choice on what to hone to give them the best opportunity at getting to the NBA. Some aspect of their game is invariably going to suffer.
This post was edited on 5/13/15 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:08 pm to Captain Fantasy
quote:There aren't more than five players league-wide who get hack-a-shaqed. This isn't a scourge that needs to be removed from the NBA.
Yeah, good. This hack-a-shaq is thrilling to watch.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:10 pm to ballscaster
quote:Does anyone know how many times it's been employed in the playoffs?
This isn't a scourge that needs to be removed from the NBA.
This post was edited on 5/13/15 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:11 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:In game five against San Antonio, Jordan was conspicuously absent for most of the fourth quarter. Why? San Antonio's starters weren't in foul trouble.
In DeAndre Jordan's case (and coupled with the fact that the Clippers are so efficient) since he 42% from the line it's beneficial for opponents to foul him.
There's nothing wrong with Hack-a-Shaq. There's nothing wrong with letting players flounder because they're not that good at something that junior high girls can do well.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:12 pm to boom roasted
quote:Never in your life have you watched hacka more than six minutes at a time.
I agree. Nothing like spending a couple hours watching the hacka strategy. Thrilling basketball.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:13 pm to ballscaster
It's not even like he has to be 70%, the dude only needs to be a little over 50% 
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:13 pm to ballscaster
quote:I wish they would release viewership numbers on a 10 minute increment for game 4 of the Rockets vs Clippers.
There's nothing wrong with Hack-a-Shaq.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:13 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:No it wont. Foul the guy with the ball
This would extremely limit comebacks late in the game due to fouling.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:13 pm to boom roasted
You make a good point. I will be using that argument in the future.
Can I also say how ridiculous free throws are in general? Yes. We are used to them now. But I would be furious when they inserted that rule initially. So a big man getting fouled on a dunk gets the same number of attempts as a guard taking a fade away three that he likely wasn't going to be making anyway?
Can I also say how ridiculous free throws are in general? Yes. We are used to them now. But I would be furious when they inserted that rule initially. So a big man getting fouled on a dunk gets the same number of attempts as a guard taking a fade away three that he likely wasn't going to be making anyway?
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:13 pm to ballscaster
quote:Game 4 Rockets vs Clippers.
Never in your life have you watched hacka more than six minutes at a time.
Posted on 5/13/15 at 3:15 pm to slackster
quote:
Some guys are just bad FT shooters
Some guys are just not 7', that doesn't mean we should change the rules and not allow guys over 6'8" to jump.
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