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Started By
Message
re: Muhammed Ali Dead at 74
Posted on 6/5/16 at 1:30 am to REG861
Posted on 6/5/16 at 1:30 am to REG861
It's a sad commentary on the state of our country that, with the passing of one of the most iconic sports legends our country has ever produced, some would gleefully flock to a message board to denounce a man most of them had never met, and with such vitriol and ignorance.
First, given the time, no other athlete had ever so boisterously voiced their greatness, and backed it up. He was a dynamic force who was able to back up that self assuredness time and again. To some, that self promoting confidence was a turn off and, to many at the time, that feeds in to the second point.
Ali was NEVER drafted. To paint him as a "draft dodger" is too easy and, frankly asinine, considering the number of "respected" people in politics from both sides who legitimately dodged the draft through various means. Ali took a stand because he felt that if his country could not recognize him as a person, why should he be put in a position to represent his country either through propaganda, which he certainly would have been, or as a fighting man. That was his stance against an injustice of the times that, if you didn't live through it, I don't think you can fully appreciate. By taking that stand, he was stripped of everything and it took a decision of the Supreme Court to have him reinstated as a fighter.
No one can argue that the man created the modern superstar persona. And how many modern superstars would willingly sacrifice everything for a cause they believed in?
Even after his boxing career had passed him by, he continued to contribute to his community and attempt to make a difference in this world.
The man may have had many faults, but this is a huge loss to, not only the sporting world, but to this country. May the man RIP.
First, given the time, no other athlete had ever so boisterously voiced their greatness, and backed it up. He was a dynamic force who was able to back up that self assuredness time and again. To some, that self promoting confidence was a turn off and, to many at the time, that feeds in to the second point.
Ali was NEVER drafted. To paint him as a "draft dodger" is too easy and, frankly asinine, considering the number of "respected" people in politics from both sides who legitimately dodged the draft through various means. Ali took a stand because he felt that if his country could not recognize him as a person, why should he be put in a position to represent his country either through propaganda, which he certainly would have been, or as a fighting man. That was his stance against an injustice of the times that, if you didn't live through it, I don't think you can fully appreciate. By taking that stand, he was stripped of everything and it took a decision of the Supreme Court to have him reinstated as a fighter.
No one can argue that the man created the modern superstar persona. And how many modern superstars would willingly sacrifice everything for a cause they believed in?
Even after his boxing career had passed him by, he continued to contribute to his community and attempt to make a difference in this world.
The man may have had many faults, but this is a huge loss to, not only the sporting world, but to this country. May the man RIP.
5
Posted on 6/5/16 at 2:12 am to Dubosed
There was plenty of black men who fought and died in Vietnam. If he didn't want to serve, that's fine. He went to jail and served his time there. That's fine too. He had that right given to him by all those who had served this country in the past and helped maintain our freedom.
He may be a hero for a number of reasons, but his failure to serve his country was not one of them. Imo
May he rest in peace.
He may be a hero for a number of reasons, but his failure to serve his country was not one of them. Imo
May he rest in peace.
Posted on 6/5/16 at 2:35 am to TigerNavyDoc
Very well put
This post was edited on 6/5/16 at 2:36 am
Posted on 6/5/16 at 6:18 am to navy
quote:
His Country asked that small task.... He said, "frick You."
Which is what our country at the time said to African Americans who simply wanted equal rights.
Goes both ways.
Posted on 6/5/16 at 8:56 am to navy
quote:And rightfully so.
His Country asked that small task.... He said, "frick You."
Posted on 6/5/16 at 9:38 am to texastigerr
"Rumble, Young Man! Rumble!"
For those interested HBO Sports did a memorial video last night
Youtube video from HBO Sports
For those interested HBO Sports did a memorial video last night
Youtube video from HBO Sports
Posted on 6/5/16 at 10:15 am to TigerNavyDoc
quote:
Ali was NEVER drafted. To paint him as a "draft dodger" is too easy and, frankly asinine, considering the number of "respected" people in politics from both sides who legitimately dodged the draft through various means.
Wasn't Ali's IQ too low at first so he wasn't even eligible for the draft but then the IQ standards were lowered to make him eligible?
Posted on 6/5/16 at 11:49 am to TigerNavyDoc
quote:
some would gleefully flock to a message board to denounce a man most of them had never met, and with such vitriol and ignorance.
But to be honest, that is no more ignorant than others who flock to the message boards to announce him as a hero and best thing ever when they have never met him.
You only know what you have read, just like the ones who denounce him
He was a great athlete. Weather he was a great person is not known by a single person here
Posted on 6/5/16 at 4:36 pm to LanierSpots
Personal interactions matter. Definitely is not definitive but it's a glimpse into the character of a man.
So yeah, those recollections are part of the man and what he meant to those who interacted with him. Compared to those that just spout old hard hat vitriol about not participating in Vietnam...the type of people who supported Joe Frazier over Ali over Vietnam and then dropped Frazier like a napkin the second the fight was over...those sort of people, like one poster in this thread.
So yeah, those recollections are part of the man and what he meant to those who interacted with him. Compared to those that just spout old hard hat vitriol about not participating in Vietnam...the type of people who supported Joe Frazier over Ali over Vietnam and then dropped Frazier like a napkin the second the fight was over...those sort of people, like one poster in this thread.
Posted on 6/5/16 at 6:47 pm to texastigerr
TL;DR
*Disclaimer*
The following post is only my opinions. I do not expect all of you to share my opinion. I will not belittle you for your opinion or try to make you align yours with mine.
Figured I would wait at least 24 hours before posting about him out of respect. Muhammad Ali was a great fighter. Probably the greatest of all time (How fun would it be to watch Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson)! And despite a well below average IQ, he was as witty and as charismatic as they come. He knocked people out, he made millions, he stood up for his beliefs, etc.
Speaking of which, it's no secret that Ali refused to enlist in the Army and defend his country during Vietnam. Some commend him for standing up to the government and sticking to his beliefs. There are also a few who condemn him for not answering the same call that many others did. This argument does not interest me.
When I think of Ali, I think about the quotes!
"I done wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, kidnapped lightning, thrown thunder in jail!"
"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!"
I think about the showdowns. Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Norton, etc. none of which I watched live, but I have watched them all multiple times.
I'm glad to see that for the most part, the discussion after his passing has been 99% positive and 1% negative.
If you feel like there's a BUT coming, here it is. On the way home from Nitro Circus last night I was listening to sports talk. CBS went to commercial so I reluctantly turned to ESPN and heard Freddie Coleman comparing Ali to Pat Tillman. As I mentioned above, I have no I'll feeling towards Ali but hearing him being compared to Pat Tillman was like a punch to the gut.
I'll stop my gripe there. This post is not a slight to Muhammad Ali. I just don't think he deserves to be compared to a man who did what Ali refused to do and paid the ultimate price.
Both men deserve to be remembered! Ali as a great American Boxing Champion. Pat Tillman as an American Hero who selflessly and tragically gave all.
RIP Ali
RIP Pat
*Disclaimer*
The following post is only my opinions. I do not expect all of you to share my opinion. I will not belittle you for your opinion or try to make you align yours with mine.
Figured I would wait at least 24 hours before posting about him out of respect. Muhammad Ali was a great fighter. Probably the greatest of all time (How fun would it be to watch Prime Ali vs Prime Tyson)! And despite a well below average IQ, he was as witty and as charismatic as they come. He knocked people out, he made millions, he stood up for his beliefs, etc.
Speaking of which, it's no secret that Ali refused to enlist in the Army and defend his country during Vietnam. Some commend him for standing up to the government and sticking to his beliefs. There are also a few who condemn him for not answering the same call that many others did. This argument does not interest me.
When I think of Ali, I think about the quotes!
"I done wrestled with an alligator, tussled with a whale, kidnapped lightning, thrown thunder in jail!"
"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!"
I think about the showdowns. Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Norton, etc. none of which I watched live, but I have watched them all multiple times.
I'm glad to see that for the most part, the discussion after his passing has been 99% positive and 1% negative.
If you feel like there's a BUT coming, here it is. On the way home from Nitro Circus last night I was listening to sports talk. CBS went to commercial so I reluctantly turned to ESPN and heard Freddie Coleman comparing Ali to Pat Tillman. As I mentioned above, I have no I'll feeling towards Ali but hearing him being compared to Pat Tillman was like a punch to the gut.
I'll stop my gripe there. This post is not a slight to Muhammad Ali. I just don't think he deserves to be compared to a man who did what Ali refused to do and paid the ultimate price.
Both men deserve to be remembered! Ali as a great American Boxing Champion. Pat Tillman as an American Hero who selflessly and tragically gave all.
RIP Ali
RIP Pat
Posted on 6/6/16 at 8:00 pm to TigerNavyDoc
quote:
It's a sad commentary on the state of our country that, with the passing of one of the most iconic sports legends our country has ever produced, some would gleefully flock to a message board to denounce a man most of them had never met, and with such vitriol and ignorance.
Even if you disagree with Ali's stance (though 40 years later, how can you...when nobody does) threads don't need to turn to hatred like Lou Pai, Pai Lou, I don't know, some random guy or whatever his name is as some random poster...did...and attack his legacy by attacking people who supported Ali for what he stood for. Didn't know in this day and age, there were still so many hard hats from the 60's - or pro-Vietnam guys.
Ali was vindicated by history.
Period.
And that might not have been popular among people who think you should blindly do what your government tells you to do...that's a shame. And I understand most couldn't rebel, a lot tried..jail, Canada. Ali was famous enough to be able to conscientiously object but he still paid a price for taking a stand against an immoral war. I wish all the service men had the means and fame to to do likewise.
This post was edited on 6/6/16 at 8:06 pm
Posted on 6/6/16 at 8:13 pm to TigerNavyDoc
That's what you get when you elect a shitass dem like johnson, hope that isn't repeated.
Posted on 6/7/16 at 12:26 am to texastigerr
I know it means absolutely nothing but I just don't respect him as a man and he isn't the greatest... He wasn't a good man, American or sportsman. It's the Michael Jackson effect with his death. Nothing more.
Posted on 6/7/16 at 12:31 am to RBWilliams8
Kimbo Slice GOAT
This post was edited on 6/7/16 at 12:36 am
Posted on 6/7/16 at 1:08 am to Breadstick Gun
That's a pretty good compilation post of how my dad felt. He's a US Army ret Col airborne ranger with a CIB from NELA. He hated Ali as a younger man but respected what a great champ he was.
Max Kellerman put it really well the other night: Ali would have been way less of an icon but for his ability to repeatedly pull off the impossible through heart. Impossible to beat Liston in that first fight; impossible to get up in the 15th after Frazier crushed him in the with that famous left hook, but he did; impossible to beat the unbeatable George Foreman. He constantly did what most people thought at the time he did it, was impossible.
Then he beat Frazier twice and he became one of the great philanthropists of our time, secured the freedom of American hostages, and couldn't even barely speak for the last 25 years after being one of the loudest mouths of all time. Frick the haters of that dude. He's undoubtedly tGOAT
Max Kellerman put it really well the other night: Ali would have been way less of an icon but for his ability to repeatedly pull off the impossible through heart. Impossible to beat Liston in that first fight; impossible to get up in the 15th after Frazier crushed him in the with that famous left hook, but he did; impossible to beat the unbeatable George Foreman. He constantly did what most people thought at the time he did it, was impossible.
Then he beat Frazier twice and he became one of the great philanthropists of our time, secured the freedom of American hostages, and couldn't even barely speak for the last 25 years after being one of the loudest mouths of all time. Frick the haters of that dude. He's undoubtedly tGOAT
This post was edited on 6/7/16 at 1:09 am
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