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re: Kornheiser: Nadal has removed Federer from the discussion of G.O.A.T

Posted on 6/11/13 at 10:32 pm to
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 6/11/13 at 10:32 pm to
express his talent. You can especially notice this progress with his backhand, now that he moves better his backhand is better and more dangerous. Thanks to this work and this progress Roger became stronger mentally. Now, what he needs is to defeat Hewitt one or two times. The day he would gave done that, he would be on the road to the number one place. And for him it would be a straight line."

For Marat, it seems to be more complicated, and even more if he follows Rosset's method: "You put Hewitt's brain in to Marat's body and you have the number one in the world until 2010. Well as I know well the guy(Marat), even if the transplant was possible, it would probably have a massive and fast rejection". Yes, Marat Safin is complicated. "Complicated? It's worst than complicated, I am Russian" Marat laughs.

Rosset less, even tough: "Marat, if he follows through his possibilities, nobody can compete with him, even Roger. But it depends on the desire to go to the fight that Marat will have, maybe Marat doesn't love the tennis enough, maybe he doesn't want to dominate this sport and to fall in a kind of slavery with regard to the performance. He is Russian, and he is right in pointing this out. We must not forget that he is Russian. The lack is inscribing in his mentality, the deprivation of freedom too and now that he is totally free, he will never accept to sacrify a part of his total independence even if it's in order to join the history of the Sport.

"In concrete terms, even if you're close to him, even if he totally trusts you, you can't come to tell him 'you have to do this, you have to work like that'. If you speak to him like this it means that you want him to do the contrary of what you said. Unfortunately, as Marat is crafty, sometimes he doesn't do what you ask, but he doesn't do totally the opposite. He hates the obligation."
Mats Wilander knows it very well: "It seemed logical to associate myself with Marat in order to give him the qualities that I had when I was a player: the tactic, the perseverance, the persistence. People said that all those qualities associated with Marat's talent would help him a lot to achieve the highest top. It didn't work as it was supposed to work. Maybe Marat needs a coach as crazy as him... We separated ourselves admitting failure.

Two events made us become aware that our duo couldn't work. The first one happened when I saw him hitting a shot between his legs just after he had been lobbed at 5/4 in the last set while he could have hit a conventional shot but a more efficient shot. I told him that I didn't understand his behaviour and that it was a lack of respect towards the game, toward the history of the game and the biggest champions, towards his opponent and above all towards himself. He answered that from his point of view it was the opposite. Then during an other match, he tried to hit an ace on his second ball at 5/5, he missed and he lost. That's when I understood, and he understood it too, that it would be better to stay the best friend of the world than to work together. I think he learned 2 or 3 things with me, but I am sure that if I still have something to bring to his game or to this man's life it would be as a friend, not as a coach".

Anyway, this is the only one method with Marat. He banishes the word "coach" from his vocabulary. He "only listens to his friends" and he "only trusts his friends". He has only few friends, which is surprising for such an attractive person. Federer is also engaging. "That's why people are so impatient with them. That's why everybody wants to see them on top very quickly," says Lundgren. "They have beautiful games, they are spontaneous and nice. That's why nobody can wait to see them being number one and number two in the world, in the final of all the Grand Slams. But we have to give them time."

The time they need to accept to be so gifted and also to accept to not always be perfect. On this road, Roger seems to be a little bit ahead of Marat. Rosset dares to say that "it's because of his education and his humility". It's also because of the tragedy Roger lived when his friend and coach Peter Carter died in a car crash last summer. This event changed Roger because ,as he said, with the pain, a "new maturity came". It's cold the adulthood, simply.


END ARTICLE
This post was edited on 6/11/13 at 10:43 pm
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 6/11/13 at 10:35 pm to
quote:

I would love, in a perfect world, to see what Safin could be if you put Rafa/Fed's work ethic into his body. He's probably the most physically gifted player in the sport's history and that shithead didn't give a fvck!


I think he cared; I just think he was a little bit too nuts.

But I agree that he may well be the most physically gifted player ever.
Posted by austingator
austin
Member since Jan 2009
7442 posts
Posted on 6/11/13 at 11:28 pm to
I've enjoyed reading this thread.
My thoughts:
Roger is poetry in motion, is beauty and grace with genius. He makes it look easy.
Rafa is the polar opposite. Is brutal passion and effort. Is mental toughness and relentless disregard for his body.
Djokovic is a freak of nature. Physically gifted, almost out of this world but mentally weaker and a bit too arrogant.

The joker had an unbelievable year in 2011, the best in tennis. But he is back to his old self- a bit inconsistent. He looks like the best player on court, but tennis is more of a mental game than anything and he was unable to finish Rafa when he had him.

The future? Bernard Tomic? Hahahaha no way. The problems with his dad and his inabity to deal with that will come back to bite him.

My guess is Grigor Dimitrov, Sharapova's boyfriend, otherwise known as "baby Federer". Milo's Raonic will be up there as well. Those two stand out to me. But I think we will still have 3-5 yrs in which the big four will still dominate.

Murray- he will be the Wimbledon champion this year. He will get the easy Roger Federer draw and will beat Djokovic on the final.
This post was edited on 6/11/13 at 11:31 pm
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
82024 posts
Posted on 6/11/13 at 11:37 pm to
Good post.

But..

quote:

But he is back to his old self- a bit inconsistent.


His old self doesn't take Nadal tow a 5th set in RG. I mean the guys was down 2 sets to 1 and even down a break in the fourth but he overcame that and put himself in a position to win.

quote:


Murray- he will be the Wimbledon champion this year.


Well I hope he is fully healed because if he is, the semi finals and the final will be rally amazing this year and no one will sneak past those 4.

quote:

He will get the easy Roger Federer draw and will beat Djokovic on the final.


Well Fed is old but I would never call him an "easy" draw...easier than Nadal and Nole yeah maybe but this guy won Wimbledon just last year and he was pretty competitive in his semi against Murray at the Aussie.
Posted by FootballNostradamus
Member since Nov 2009
20509 posts
Posted on 6/11/13 at 11:46 pm to
Good article Bobby! Sports geniuses (and I'm sure in all fascets though it's not so publically seen) and prodigies fascinate me. I always loved A Beautiful Mind for this very reason. How do you sit through class when you believe you're above the professors and should be discovering new theorems instead of learning accepted ones?

It's the same thing in sports. Guys like Safin, Rafa, Tiger, Lebron, how do you motivate those guys when it's so obvious from the beginning that they're different? Super interesting stuff IMO.
Posted by FootballNostradamus
Member since Nov 2009
20509 posts
Posted on 6/11/13 at 11:49 pm to
quote:

Murray- he will be the Wimbledon champion this year. He will get the easy Roger Federer draw and will beat Djokovic on the final.


It's so annoying tennis' rankings are so archaic that we're stuck with the Rafa-Djokovic semi again, downright criminal!

I'm very curious to see how this Wimbledon turns out. While I wouldn't agree completely that Djokovic is reverting back to his old self, I also don't think he's as consistent as he was last year. You don't get steam-rolled in the 3rd like he did and then go be up a break in the deciding set against Rafa on clay.

He's still the best player on any surface when he wants to, he's just not consistent enough. It was ridiculous watching him get bent over one set and then the next he's effortlessly running Rafa ragged. The guy is so inconsistent even within matches, it's insane.
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
82024 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:02 am to
quote:

It's so annoying tennis' rankings are so archaic that we're stuck with the Rafa-Djokovic semi again, downright criminal!


What do you mean?
Djokovic could get Murray on his side while Fed draws Nadal.
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:08 am to
quote:

I've enjoyed reading this thread.
My thoughts:
Roger is poetry in motion, is beauty and grace with genius. He makes it look easy.
Rafa is the polar opposite. Is brutal passion and effort. Is mental toughness and relentless disregard for his body.
Djokovic is a freak of nature. Physically gifted, almost out of this world but mentally weaker and a bit too arrogant.

The joker had an unbelievable year in 2011, the best in tennis. But he is back to his old self- a bit inconsistent. He looks like the best player on court, but tennis is more of a mental game than anything and he was unable to finish Rafa when he had him.

The future? Bernard Tomic? Hahahaha no way. The problems with his dad and his inabity to deal with that will come back to bite him.

My guess is Grigor Dimitrov, Sharapova's boyfriend, otherwise known as "baby Federer". Milo's Raonic will be up there as well. Those two stand out to me. But I think we will still have 3-5 yrs in which the big four will still dominate.

Murray- he will be the Wimbledon champion this year. He will get the easy Roger Federer draw and will beat Djokovic on the final.


You had me till Milos Raonic
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:10 am to
quote:

Murray- he will be the Wimbledon champion this year. He will get the easy Roger Federer draw and will beat Djokovic on the final.


Murray is my pick as well. I can't believe I just wrote that.
Posted by FootballNostradamus
Member since Nov 2009
20509 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:11 am to
quote:

What do you mean?

Djokovic could get Murray on his side while Fed draws Nadal.


Possibly.

I was just using the other guy's scenario of Fed and Murray being matched up with Djokovic and Nadal being on one side.
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
82024 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:13 am to
Ah yeah, I kind of like the fact that they draw it otherwise we'd be looking at the same semis almost very time.
Posted by TulaneTigerFan
Seattle
Member since Sep 2005
35856 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:16 am to
Nadal is actually going to be ranked fifth at Wimbledon, meaning that he could end up in the same quarter as one of those guys
Posted by FootballNostradamus
Member since Nov 2009
20509 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:23 am to
quote:

Nadal is actually going to be ranked fifth at Wimbledon, meaning that he could end up in the same quarter as one of those guys


Huh? How's that gonna happen?!?!?!?! Ferrer getting some big bump cause of the French Finals?
Posted by bobbyray21
Member since Sep 2009
9490 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:31 am to
quote:

What do you mean?
Djokovic could get Murray on his side while Fed draws Nadal.


Do what? Murray is #2 in the rankings. Him and Djoker will be on opposite sides of the draw.

/********************* the draw *********

1)------
-----------------------
3/4)------

------------------------------------------------

3/4)------
----------------------
2) ------

******************************************/

Federer and Ferrer are 3/4.

As 5, Rafa can end up in any of the above four quadrants.

So let's Federer ends up on Murray's side. If Rafa got drawn to Federer's quadrant, he would potentially have to beat Fed in the quarters, Murray in the semis, and then Djokovic in the final. That'd be a tough draw.

If I were Murray or Djokovic and Rafa ended up in my quadrant, i would be none too pleased.

Did I get all that right?
This post was edited on 6/12/13 at 12:33 am
Posted by TulaneTigerFan
Seattle
Member since Sep 2005
35856 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:31 am to
Yeah, I didn't realize it until I saw some Britsh articles whining about how tough this could be on Murray today:

LINK
Posted by FootballNostradamus
Member since Nov 2009
20509 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:46 am to
quote:

Yeah, I didn't realize it until I saw some Britsh articles whining about how tough this could be on Murray today:


Jesus, that's moronic. Anyone know if there's any movement out there to change tennis rankings in any way. I love the subtle shoutout by the article to how dumb the rankings are:


Despite winning the French Open for the eighth time, the Spanish superstar Nadal slipped down to No.5 in the rankings on Monday - behind David Ferrer, the man he beat in straight sets in the Paris final the day before.

quote:

Despite winning the French Open for the eighth time, the Spanish superstar Nadal slipped down to No.5 in the rankings on Monday - behind David Ferrer, the man he beat in straight sets in the Paris final the day before.


Rafa is obviously an extreme case due to the injury, but the point system has always been terrible IMO.
Posted by FootballNostradamus
Member since Nov 2009
20509 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:48 am to
So depending on where Rafa is, there's a chance Djokovic or Murray could reach the finals without having to play Fed OR Rafa? That's idiotic.

Ferrer probably won't even make it to the semis and if Rafa isn't in his quarter it will be an absolute breeze for whoever is on that half.
Posted by SunSpring00
Member since Jun 2013
162 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:49 am to
quote:

Murray is my pick as well. I can't believe I just wrote that.


No way Murray wins..
Posted by UncleBlazer
Member since Jan 2013
3333 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 12:59 am to
Yes no way a guy who made it to the finals, and won the Olympics at the same place can win. Righhht
Posted by FootballNostradamus
Member since Nov 2009
20509 posts
Posted on 6/12/13 at 1:17 am to
quote:

Yes no way a guy who made it to the finals, and won the Olympics at the same place can win. Righhht


This is as wide-open as the field has been in years IMO.

-Djokovic if he plays at his peak for the entire tournament wins, period

-Rafa, if he stays healthy and improves his serving percentages can win it

-This might be one of the last year Federer is really considered one of the likely candidates to win so you know he's going to be going for it hard. He has always given Djokovic hell, especially on grass

-Murray, like you mentioned, has had success on this surface as of late (although Wimbledon /= the Olympics). There will be so much pressure on him, but if Rafa doesn't make it I'm pulling for Andy!
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