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Started By
Message
Is Patrick Willis a HOF'er?
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:00 am
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:00 am
Willis absolutely played at a Hall of Fame level and was indisputably one of the best players in the league for multiple seasons. He's been frequently called a "future Hall of Famer," but most who said this didn't think Willis would be calling it a career at only 30 years old
Now, I'm not so sure he ever makes it. He certainly won't be a first-ballot guy, despite his impressive accolades. He's been named to seven Pro Bowls, was a first-team All-Pro five times, a second-team All-Pro once and was the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2007. That's all well and good, but I have to wonder if those will always be secondary to "he retired early." Nobody will ever doubt his skill on the football field or what he meant to the 49ers - but there are just 12 middle linebackers in the Hall of Fame, and two of them were senior selections.
Thoughts?
Now, I'm not so sure he ever makes it. He certainly won't be a first-ballot guy, despite his impressive accolades. He's been named to seven Pro Bowls, was a first-team All-Pro five times, a second-team All-Pro once and was the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2007. That's all well and good, but I have to wonder if those will always be secondary to "he retired early." Nobody will ever doubt his skill on the football field or what he meant to the 49ers - but there are just 12 middle linebackers in the Hall of Fame, and two of them were senior selections.
Thoughts?
This post was edited on 8/23/16 at 11:11 am
16
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:03 am to Morally Bankrupt
It would be a travesty if he didn't make it simply because he retired early. He was a scary player for your team to play against, one of my favorite non saints.
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:04 am to Morally Bankrupt
quote:
That's all well and good, but I have to wonder if those will always be secondary to "he retired early.
quote:
Thoughts?
If the age he retired becomes a new norm then it won't hurt him.
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:06 am to Morally Bankrupt
With all the probowls/all pros id have to think hes there. admittedly i am not looking at comparable players, or the players resumes that made it - just a gut reaction.
its not like he retired at 27 - he does have a pretty extensive resume. if for instance you sandwiched the same accomplishments between a slow rookie year, and a year on the decline and he retired at 32, I dont think anyone would raise an eyebrow about including him in the HOF and that would arguably be less impressive.
its not like he retired at 27 - he does have a pretty extensive resume. if for instance you sandwiched the same accomplishments between a slow rookie year, and a year on the decline and he retired at 32, I dont think anyone would raise an eyebrow about including him in the HOF and that would arguably be less impressive.
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:06 am to Morally Bankrupt
Here are his career stats:
8 Interceptions
55 Pass Deflections
16 Forced Fumbles
5 Fumbles Recovered
20.5 Sacks
732 Tackles
2 Defensive Touchdowns
Those are not Hall of Fame numbers. His resume in the time frame is impressive, but his career stats don't measure up to guys who put in 10+ seasons in the League.
For comparison, here are some more recent MLB stats.
Ray Lewis
31 Interceptions
81 Pass Deflections
19 Forced Fumbles
20 Fumbles Recovered
41.5 Sacks
1562 Tackles
0 Defensive Touchdowns
Junior Seau
18 Interceptions
23 Pass Deflections
11 Forced Fumbles
18 Fumble Recoveries
56.5 Sacks
1522 Tackles
1 Defensive Touchdown
Brian Urlacher
22 Interceptions
85 Pass Deflections
11 Forced Fumbles
15 Fumble Recoveries
41.5 Sacks
1040 Tackles
2 Defensive Touchdowns
Zach Thomas
17 Interceptions
38 Pass Deflections
16 Forced Fumbles
8 Fumble Recoveries
20.5 Sacks
1100 Tackles
0 Defensive Touchdowns
James Harrison (More accurate comparison)
7 Interceptions
25 Pass Deflections
31 Forced Fumbles
9 Fumble Recoveries
76.5 Sacks
528 Tackles
1 Defensive Touchdown
London Fletcher
23 Interceptions
87 Pass Deflections
19 Forced Fumbles
12 Fumble Recoveries
39 Sacks
1380 Tackles
1 Defensive Touchdown
8 Interceptions
55 Pass Deflections
16 Forced Fumbles
5 Fumbles Recovered
20.5 Sacks
732 Tackles
2 Defensive Touchdowns
Those are not Hall of Fame numbers. His resume in the time frame is impressive, but his career stats don't measure up to guys who put in 10+ seasons in the League.
For comparison, here are some more recent MLB stats.
Ray Lewis
31 Interceptions
81 Pass Deflections
19 Forced Fumbles
20 Fumbles Recovered
41.5 Sacks
1562 Tackles
0 Defensive Touchdowns
Junior Seau
18 Interceptions
23 Pass Deflections
11 Forced Fumbles
18 Fumble Recoveries
56.5 Sacks
1522 Tackles
1 Defensive Touchdown
Brian Urlacher
22 Interceptions
85 Pass Deflections
11 Forced Fumbles
15 Fumble Recoveries
41.5 Sacks
1040 Tackles
2 Defensive Touchdowns
Zach Thomas
17 Interceptions
38 Pass Deflections
16 Forced Fumbles
8 Fumble Recoveries
20.5 Sacks
1100 Tackles
0 Defensive Touchdowns
James Harrison (More accurate comparison)
7 Interceptions
25 Pass Deflections
31 Forced Fumbles
9 Fumble Recoveries
76.5 Sacks
528 Tackles
1 Defensive Touchdown
London Fletcher
23 Interceptions
87 Pass Deflections
19 Forced Fumbles
12 Fumble Recoveries
39 Sacks
1380 Tackles
1 Defensive Touchdown
This post was edited on 8/23/16 at 11:19 am
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:13 am to saint amant steve
quote:
Those are not Hall of Fame numbers. His resume in the time frame is impressive, but his career stats don't measure up to guys who put in 10+ seasons in the League.
I will agree with that, but if we start having players retire early then a lot less guys will have those numbers, or mediocre players will reach them because they stayed in.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
This post was edited on 8/23/16 at 11:13 am
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:18 am to Morally Bankrupt
If he does make the HoF, he'll probably be 70 something years old by then.
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:20 am to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
I will agree with that, but if we start having players retire early then a lot less guys will have those numbers, or mediocre players will reach them because they stayed in.
Fair point.
I think Calvin Johnson has a greater chance of landing in Canton.
One could argue that Willis benefited from playing with a number of exceptional defensive players in that 49ers front seven. Meanwhile, Megatron carried that Lions offense many times.
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:26 am to saint amant steve
no he is not a hall of famer. Could he have been? Sure... but he didnt do enough
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:27 am to Morally Bankrupt
If he gets in, then Terrell Davis needs to.
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:33 am to LSUlefty
6 All-Pro seasons in 8 years in the league, 5 first team appearances, 7 pro bowls. He may not make the HOF, but he should
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:36 am to Morally Bankrupt
I think so. There is precedent for players to make it into the hall because of the impact they made on the game despite a short career (sayers).
Also, when I look at people who I think are hall worthy what I look at is sustained time of several years as the best or arguably one of the very best at their position. Despite retiring somewhat early, Willis still did this. The 5 time first team All Pro speaks to this. It isn't everything, but I think the All Pro stat is maybe the most important thing that I look at for the hall.
Also, when I look at people who I think are hall worthy what I look at is sustained time of several years as the best or arguably one of the very best at their position. Despite retiring somewhat early, Willis still did this. The 5 time first team All Pro speaks to this. It isn't everything, but I think the All Pro stat is maybe the most important thing that I look at for the hall.
This post was edited on 8/23/16 at 11:37 am
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:37 am to saint amant steve
Good summary, he should get some consideration, but I feel like there are too many players that put up better numbers and accomplishments in an entire career that will pass him up
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:41 am to Upperdecker
If he gets in, he will sort of set the precedence on the new wave of HoF entrants. Pretty soon the HoF will be filled with guys who spent 5-6 years in the league and rode the hype train the entire time, on their way to Canton.
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:45 am to Upperdecker
Which is more important to being in the HoF, being one of very best in the league for a large portion of your career or being pretty good for a longer time? The former is what I think is more important. It is based off of ability and contributing the most towards winning when you are on the field. The latter is just stat accumulation.
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:47 am to Morally Bankrupt
Was he better as a linebacker than Gale Sayers was as a running back?
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:47 am to Morally Bankrupt
He should be in. Best non rush LB of my life time
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:49 am to Morally Bankrupt
5 1st team all pro
Yep he's in
Yep he's in
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:50 am to USAF Hart
quote:
Pretty soon the HoF will be filled with guys who spent 5-6 years in the league and rode the hype train the entire time
wait, are you trying to say Willis was just riding the hype train?
Posted on 8/23/16 at 11:52 am to Morally Bankrupt
I say yes. HOF is for the best of the best, when compared to their peers. He was the best of the best.
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