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re: If Ken Griffey Jr. doesn't get hurt where does he rank all time?
Posted on 7/15/13 at 5:28 pm to ReauxlTide222
Posted on 7/15/13 at 5:28 pm to ReauxlTide222
He's one of the best ever as is, but IMO he's certainly top 3 if he doesn't get hurt. He's the single reason I'm as big of a baseball fan as I am today, and unfortunately also the reason I still am a Mariners fan 
1
Posted on 7/15/13 at 5:35 pm to molsusports
quote:
Compare Bonds numbers with Pittsburgh with Griffey's numbers in his first seven years in Seattle
Throwing out their first year because neither were full-time players, years 2-7:
Bonds 281/386/515 152 OPS+
Griffey 308/386/554 153 OPS+
Pretty even, though Griffey has the homer edge 173-160. Bonds stole 215 bases to Griffey's 76 on top of that.
Bonds won his first MVP at age 25, which is not an unheard of time for a player to make the leap to great player. Know who also saw their numbers go up significantly at age 25? His dad.
But check out their numbers from 90-99:
Griffey 302/384/581 152 OPS+
Bonds 302/434/602 179 OPS+
Griffey still held that slight HR edge (382-361), but Bonds stole 343 bases to Griffey's 151. Basically, Bonds caught up in BA, somehow added even more walks, and increased his power. He improved every facet of his game in the 90s (his speed would evaporate by the decade's end). But really, Bonds' edge is in the most subtle of skills: Bonds had the best batting eye since Williams, maybe ever.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 5:41 pm to ReauxlTide222
Top 5 All Time if he never gets hurt
Top 10 All Time is where he is right now IMO
Top 10 All Time is where he is right now IMO
This post was edited on 7/15/13 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 7/15/13 at 5:59 pm to Baloo
I like most of your analysis with the exception of thinking it was dishonest of you to throw out the first year. Both guys played more than 110 games and had around 500 plate appearances in that first year. If you include the first year (as you should) then I think you'll see Griffey was better than Bonds in years 1-7 (as I originally argued) but I will concede it is a close comparison. If you want to argue about years 8 and later then you'll probably need another partner for that dance. (I think it was chemically enhanced but the two of us feel too differently on the subject to have a productive discussion).
FWIW, I love your point about stolen bases. Having a guy like Bonds both hit for power and steal bases is really a special thing. You don't mention defense and it is worth mentioning that Griffey was the better fielder (the ignored "half" of baseball). Also, kige the part of your post on Bond's batting eye and improvement as he aged. He worked hard and whatever other factors were involved he would not have succeeded at as high of a level if he hadn't been so dedicated to his craft.
FWIW, I love your point about stolen bases. Having a guy like Bonds both hit for power and steal bases is really a special thing. You don't mention defense and it is worth mentioning that Griffey was the better fielder (the ignored "half" of baseball). Also, kige the part of your post on Bond's batting eye and improvement as he aged. He worked hard and whatever other factors were involved he would not have succeeded at as high of a level if he hadn't been so dedicated to his craft.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:16 pm to ReauxlTide222
GOAT because he did it all natural. I'm only slightly exaggerating.
If he was implicated in the 'roids scandal my entire childhood would be ruined.
If he was implicated in the 'roids scandal my entire childhood would be ruined.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:19 pm to Matisyeezy
His name has been relatively clean compared to others but iiiiiiiidk man. His body sorta progressed like a baseball players' who used them.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:21 pm to LSUintheNW
quote:
he is one of the greatest ball players ever to play in my opinion. regardless of his stats
this
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:22 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
His name has been relatively clean compared to others but iiiiiiiidk man. His body sorta progressed like a baseball players' who used them
STOP! I refuse to listen to any logic. He's clean, dammit.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:25 pm to Matisyeezy
Griffey matured, Bonds became a freak.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:26 pm to Interception
quote:
Top 5 All Time if he never gets hurt
He still would not be better than Bonds, Henderson, A-rod, Schmidt or Pujols
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:26 pm to Matisyeezy
Fair enough. I actually heard he would ingest sugar before games because he felt it gave him more energy than he morally thought was fair. So you're good 
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:28 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
A-rod
Uhm, does he even have the numbers for you to back up that claim? For some reason I disregard everything he's ever done. I can't stand him.
ETA: Damn he's really a career .300 hitter?
This post was edited on 7/15/13 at 6:30 pm
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:50 pm to ReauxlTide222
To me Griffey is the GOAT imo. He was so awesome to watch. I was and am I diehard stros fan but I would turn the channel just to watch griffey bat.
He was everything a franchise/city could want in a player; tremendous offense and defense, and a great role model to kids. Griffey never came off like a dick like bonds and such. He is still the COOLEST player to ever play! Lol
He was everything a franchise/city could want in a player; tremendous offense and defense, and a great role model to kids. Griffey never came off like a dick like bonds and such. He is still the COOLEST player to ever play! Lol
Posted on 7/15/13 at 7:00 pm to ReauxlTide222
He's probably a top 5 overall player. Any era at his prime. Just an incredible player. I believe there are a handful of players that could excel in any era naturally...Griffey Jr is one of them.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 7:02 pm to Smokedawg
Why do none of you consider defense? Griffey ran circles around many of the players listed in that department, including Bonds
Posted on 7/15/13 at 7:09 pm to Baloo
Including the first year gives a little too much to Griffey's first year, which I'll get to in a second. For almost all players, rookie years tend to be an adjustment year, even great ones. And tells us little about a player. But if you want to include it:
Griffey: 302/381/549 148 OPS+ (238 HR, 108 SB)
Bonds: 275/380/503 147 OPS+ (176 HR, 251 SB)
Still pretty similar. But here's a big issue in those first seven years: playing time. Bonds was getting 600 PA's a year. Griffey already showed some of that late career fragility. The final two seasons of his first seven years included a season of 493 PA's backed up by a year of 314. It didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but does it hint at Griffey's late career health struggles?
Griffey probably has a slight edge in years 1-7, but then the rest of their careers happened. And Bonds was the better player over their first decade and throughout most of the 90s.
Griffey: 302/381/549 148 OPS+ (238 HR, 108 SB)
Bonds: 275/380/503 147 OPS+ (176 HR, 251 SB)
Still pretty similar. But here's a big issue in those first seven years: playing time. Bonds was getting 600 PA's a year. Griffey already showed some of that late career fragility. The final two seasons of his first seven years included a season of 493 PA's backed up by a year of 314. It didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but does it hint at Griffey's late career health struggles?
Griffey probably has a slight edge in years 1-7, but then the rest of their careers happened. And Bonds was the better player over their first decade and throughout most of the 90s.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 7:18 pm to LL012697
quote:
He's the single reason I'm as big of a baseball fan as I am today, and unfortunately also the reason I still am a Mariners fan
Preach, brother.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 7:31 pm to JabarkusRussell
I believe Griffey Jr is the one player from that era that wasn't a doper.
If not for all the PED users he would be an all time player, that he was trending to until the drugs took over.
If not for all the PED users he would be an all time player, that he was trending to until the drugs took over.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 7:34 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
If Ken Griffey Jr. doesn't get hurt where does he rank all time?And where is he now?
All-Time right now??? Top 15-18..... No Injuries.Top 5 ALL-TIME....... Griffey>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BONDS.......
Posted on 7/15/13 at 7:34 pm to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger Why do none of you consider defense? Griffey ran circles around many of the players listed in that department, including Bonds
Barry won 8 gold gloves...
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