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1
Posted on 12/9/09 at 2:33 pm to JB Bama
JB Bama- the NCAA doesn't record or recognize YAC. From my understanding, it's only recorded by coaching staffs while watching film... and only released by Sports Information Departments. It's obvious that Bama's SI is hammering this stat hard, as every Bama fan from Greenbo to Podunk has been brainwashed.
From a brief search, I can't find an unbiased third-party that lists Ingram vs. Gerhart in YAC.
Please provide a link to unbiased stats comparing the two. No message boards or fan posts... real stats.
Edit: not denying Ingram has better YAC, just ensuring that a fair source is determining that stat.
From a brief search, I can't find an unbiased third-party that lists Ingram vs. Gerhart in YAC.
Please provide a link to unbiased stats comparing the two. No message boards or fan posts... real stats.
Edit: not denying Ingram has better YAC, just ensuring that a fair source is determining that stat.
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 12/9/09 at 2:34 pm to Acreboy
quote:
that's the only way Tebow won it.
naw he had an amazing year individually in 2007
Posted on 12/9/09 at 3:20 pm to AustinTigah
"What if Gerhart ran behind Bama's far superior OL (compared to Stanford)? His #s would be even more impressive."
First off he'd be splitting carries with ingram and richardson and probably be our 3rd string back, or linebacker.
He would also get to play against real defenses, so one would assume his stats would drop significantly. In case you didnt know SEC schedules are just a "little" bit tougher than PAC-10 schedules.
Bama's S.O.S. - 4
Stanford's S.O.S. - 64
You compares s.o.s.'s and yards per carry, and it shouldnt be to hard to figure out who the better back is.
First off he'd be splitting carries with ingram and richardson and probably be our 3rd string back, or linebacker.
He would also get to play against real defenses, so one would assume his stats would drop significantly. In case you didnt know SEC schedules are just a "little" bit tougher than PAC-10 schedules.
Bama's S.O.S. - 4
Stanford's S.O.S. - 64
You compares s.o.s.'s and yards per carry, and it shouldnt be to hard to figure out who the better back is.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 3:37 pm to crimsonsaint
quote:
... real defenses, so one would assume his stats would drop significantly. In case you didn't know SEC schedules are just a "little" bit tougher than PAC-10 schedules.
Dude, c'mon. Use stats to make arguments, not subjective opinions. Everyone has opinions and Bama fans will be biased toward Ingram. Back up your opinion in FACT.
1) Re: strength of schedule... all the ranking sources putting Bama at #4 and Stanford way below that are using too simple, flawed calculations (they only take into account opponent's win %). Sagarin and other computers are more thorough than humans, and determine strength of schedule by the quality of the opponents and not just opponents win %. In that case:
* Stanford: 19th toughest
* Bama: 20th toughest
Here's the link for actual evidence: [link=(www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm)]USA Today[/link]
2) Re: opponent's rush defenses specifically (since we're talking about RBs). If you take all opponent's rush defense ranking and average them out, you get 62.3 Gerhart and 62.5 Ingram respectively. Meaning, they've played the EXACT same quality rush defenses.
Next? More opinions?
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 12/9/09 at 3:56 pm to AustinTigah
If you honestly think that stanford's schedule is tougher than bama's, then there is no point talking to you. You can make up statistics all you want, but only a dumb s.o.b. would think stanford had a tougher schedule than bama.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:06 pm to JB Bama
quote:
Ingram had 3x the Recieving yards as Gerhart, are you suggesting he is a better recieving RB than Ingram?
Clearly. He has the higher yards per average.
quote:
Gerhart averages 14.8 yards per catch to Ingram's 10.7 yards per catch too.
And as posters haves pointed out in this thread, it doesn't total yards aren't as important as efficiency. Therefore, Toby is the better receiver.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:he did but he was easily the MVP of the gators and CFB.
naw he had an amazing year individually in 2007
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:09 pm to AustinTigah
"Back up your opinion in FACT"
Kinda like you leaving out the FACT that ingram's yard per carry is much higher than gerhart's in order to make your little chart look better for your argument?
Kinda like you leaving out the FACT that Ingram has more receiving yards in order to make your little chart look better for your argument?
LINK
There's your s.o.s. link from cbssports, which i'm pretty sure is accurate.
Kinda like you leaving out the FACT that ingram's yard per carry is much higher than gerhart's in order to make your little chart look better for your argument?
Kinda like you leaving out the FACT that Ingram has more receiving yards in order to make your little chart look better for your argument?
LINK
There's your s.o.s. link from cbssports, which i'm pretty sure is accurate.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:11 pm to crimsonsaint
quote:
If you honestly think that stanford's schedule is tougher than bama's, then there is no point talking to you.
Guy... your lack of logic and basic reasoning is cute.
Use big boy words and think through this. I'm using things called "statistics" that come from "national publications" like USA Today, and "computers" that crunch numbers you and I will never be able to compute.
I don't "think" anything- I'm basing this off stats.
Take a deep breath, remove the Bama glasses for a second, and look at "numbers". It's not about me vs. you... it's about "numbers".
Headache?
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:14 pm to AustinTigah
You post this chart and have yet to back it up.
this is page 5.
you are a coward.
this is page 5.
you are a coward.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:21 pm to Lester Earl
If you break it down to opponents net rush defense then go further and break it down to # of carries vs. said opponent.
You offer misinformation 1/13th of Ingram's carries didn't come against FIU so weight it on a per carry average. Ingram had 11 carries against FIU.
Ingram has had more carries against tougher defenses. Quit making yourself look like an idiot.
You offer misinformation 1/13th of Ingram's carries didn't come against FIU so weight it on a per carry average. Ingram had 11 carries against FIU.
Ingram has had more carries against tougher defenses. Quit making yourself look like an idiot.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:21 pm to AustinTigah
REVISED CHART, including:
1) yards per carry - advantage Ingram
2) a disclaimer about yards after contact (unless someone can provide evidence otherwise that this stat isn't just one coaches make up)
3) receiving yards - advantage Ingram
4) yards per reception - advantage Gerhart (since this is such an important stat for Ingram in rushing... this is the equalizer for receiving)
UPDATED CHART
https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7838/heismanrbcomparisonv2.jpg
What else can help make this more clear?
Bring on some more OPINIONS...
1) yards per carry - advantage Ingram
2) a disclaimer about yards after contact (unless someone can provide evidence otherwise that this stat isn't just one coaches make up)
3) receiving yards - advantage Ingram
4) yards per reception - advantage Gerhart (since this is such an important stat for Ingram in rushing... this is the equalizer for receiving)
UPDATED CHART
https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7838/heismanrbcomparisonv2.jpg
What else can help make this more clear?
Bring on some more OPINIONS...
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:25 pm to AustinTigah
"It's not about me vs. you... it's about "numbers"."
Orly? How about you provide a link to a reputable publication or statistician that "crunched numbers" and formulated that bullshite chart you posted on the first page.
Its not about me or you yet "YOU" are the one that produced the only comparison chart in this thread.
"I don't "think" anything"
You thought enough to leave off ypc and recieving yardage in order to improve your argument Mr. Statistician. How bout you go back and edit that chart to include the aforementioned items since you "mistakenly" left them off.
Orly? How about you provide a link to a reputable publication or statistician that "crunched numbers" and formulated that bullshite chart you posted on the first page.
Its not about me or you yet "YOU" are the one that produced the only comparison chart in this thread.
"I don't "think" anything"
You thought enough to leave off ypc and recieving yardage in order to improve your argument Mr. Statistician. How bout you go back and edit that chart to include the aforementioned items since you "mistakenly" left them off.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:33 pm to crimsonsaint
quote:
If you break it down to opponents net rush defense then go further and break it down to # of carries vs. said opponent.
All you friend. Take a stab at those #s. I'd be honestly curious. But as you can see, short of this thread, I have a life outside of message boards and don't have 98,966 posts like some World of Warcraft Momma's boys.
But a counter-argument could be this: Ingram performed WORSE against sub-par defenses. Even his three worst SEC games, Auburn/Arky/Tenn... he was under 100 yds in all three. Those were big games, and Bama almost lost Auburn/Tenn. He rushed a good amount in all three. Auburn is ranked 80th in rush defense, Tenn is 58th, Arky is 69th. Argue that?
quote:
You thought enough to leave off ypc and recieving yardage in order to improve your argument Mr. Statistician. How bout you go back and edit that chart to include the aforementioned items since you "mistakenly" left them off.
See above cowboy. Notice my very first post:
quote:
Anything I'm missing here, as I'm trying to be fair...
More opinions?
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 12/9/09 at 4:53 pm to AustinTigah
"More opinions"
Yeah, dont quit your day job and dont post anymore home cooked charts. Your opinion is irrelevant in the heisman trophy race. Im still laughing at the fricking fact you're claiming Stanford's Pac-10 S.O.S. is tougher than bama's. It must have taken you hours of googling to find a yahoo dumb enough to come up with those S.O.S.'s.
Yeah, dont quit your day job and dont post anymore home cooked charts. Your opinion is irrelevant in the heisman trophy race. Im still laughing at the fricking fact you're claiming Stanford's Pac-10 S.O.S. is tougher than bama's. It must have taken you hours of googling to find a yahoo dumb enough to come up with those S.O.S.'s.
Posted on 12/9/09 at 5:23 pm to crimsonsaint
quote:
It must have taken you hours of googling to find a yahoo dumb enough to come up with those S.O.S.'s.
Cute.
Sagarin is the most widely-followed American sports statistician. I like to have basis for argument, and I've actually had Sagarin's poll bookmarked in my favorites for years.
quote:
Jeff Sagarin is an American sports statistician well-known for his development of a methodology for ranking and rating sports teams in a variety of sports. His ratings have been a regular feature in the USA Today sports sections since 1985, have been used by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee to help determine the participants in the NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship tournament since 1984, and have been a part of the Bowl Championship Series since its inception in 1998.
Sagarin received a Bachelor of Science degree in mathematics from Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1970 and a Master of Business Administration degree from Indiana University in 1983.
quote:
cooked charts
Produce one that somehow tells a different story. In the abscence of head-to-head comparison in sports, the only way to draw a fair/unbiased comparison is with statistics. Seriously, all you redneck Gumps keep disputing this chart with "IFs" and opinions... put your money where your mouth is and produce a comparison that YOU think is fair.
Seriously... not another word until you back it up with better data of your own.
Until then, PEACE! Out homies! I win.
This post was edited on 12/9/09 at 5:37 pm
Posted on 12/9/09 at 6:23 pm to AustinTigah
Actually you lost and Ingram won. And ill be sure and remind you of this weekend. Until then, peace out homey.
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