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Message
re: Non-Law jobs with a law degree
Posted on 10/11/13 at 1:12 pm to TheOcean
Posted on 10/11/13 at 1:12 pm to TheOcean
quote:
I pretty strongly disagree with you about the education.
Okay - you're still fairly young - you've completed your legal education - what areas do you think those skills would provide value? It's a very specific type of writing and research, although those skills are somewhat transferable. Some of the business associations (and perhaps even bankruptcy and tax, if you took those) might be helpful outside of a legal practice, but, I stand by my statement that a legal education is relatively worthless, outside the practice of law - particularly when you consider the time and money spent.
quote:
But I would prefer to jump into a field I could see myself being in for the long term. And I'm not too sure that is law related.
Which ties me back to my original point - you're not alone - in the mid-90s, about half my classmates were talking about doing something other than practice law. I still can't come up with more than a very small handful of jobs: legislative staff, perhaps federal law enforcement, etc., outside of actually being a practicing attorney, that the education and degree would have more than minimal value.
So, in my opinion, the 3 years would have been better spent doing what you wanted to do, long-term. Now, if you didn't/don't know what that is - I can see doing "something" for those 3 years, but an MBA would have had much broader application to a wide variety of situations, even though that degree is suffering from some dilution of value, as well (but nothing like what JDs have suffered over the past 30 years).
Posted on 10/11/13 at 1:14 pm to Ace Midnight
I'm pretty dead set on the corp. I've met with a couple colonels and a Lt. Colonel and I love the culture. My time up in DC confirmed that.
Biggest thing holding me back is the pt. Working daily on that though.
I appreciate your advice/comments.
Biggest thing holding me back is the pt. Working daily on that though.
I appreciate your advice/comments.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 1:20 pm to TheOcean
quote:
I'm pretty dead set on the corp.
Corps
Posted on 10/11/13 at 1:34 pm to TheOcean
I did the same thing - figured out over halfway through law school that I didn't want to be a traditional attorney. I managed to land a position with the Feds, a position that is not a "legal position," but one for which I would've never been hired without a legal education. I've moved up extremely fast and, due to my Govt experience, I now have private sector options that would've never been open to me at this stage of my career had I chosen a more traditional path. I'm not leaving the Feds anytime soon, but when I do, it will be for a very high salary.
A good friend of mine took a non-legal HR position out of law school. He's very much a people person. I know HR sounds like a total waste of a legal education, but he's surrounded by very average employees and he's a rockstar almost by default. He's been doing quite well financially and is in a fairly stress-free environment. Individuals with a legal background willing to work as HR Managers are apparently a rare breed.
My advice -
1. your law school career services people, unless they know specific individuals you can submit resumes to, will likely be worthless in your pursuit of a non-legal position. You may be better off making connections with professors that teach legal topics in the business school. Somebody mentioned applying to be a Landman in a previous reply. That's a good start.
2. It's hard to convince people to take a chance on you because they're afraid you'll leave when you find an "attorney" position somewhere else. You need to start thinking of ways to combat this perception while selling the positives you'll bring.
3. Friends/family will tell you that you are wasting your legal education if you aren't going to be an attorney. I'll agree that somebody with no intention of being a lawyer probably shouldn't decide to go to law school, but nobody anticipates changing their mind after they already begin law school. In other words, tell those people politely to keep their opinions to themselves because you're making your own way.
4. You don't know where your life is going to take you, but as long as you leverage your legal education whenever possible, you'll have a leg up on virtually all of your co-workers (who will not have a legal education). The same is true in your non-work life. For instance, I would've never had the confidence/knowledge to become a landlord had it not been for my Property, Contracts, and Real Estate classes in law school. This sort of thing will help make your 3-year sacrifice feel more worthwhile.
5. You should still sit for the Bar, even if you're not going to "use it" in your job.
Best of luck.
A good friend of mine took a non-legal HR position out of law school. He's very much a people person. I know HR sounds like a total waste of a legal education, but he's surrounded by very average employees and he's a rockstar almost by default. He's been doing quite well financially and is in a fairly stress-free environment. Individuals with a legal background willing to work as HR Managers are apparently a rare breed.
My advice -
1. your law school career services people, unless they know specific individuals you can submit resumes to, will likely be worthless in your pursuit of a non-legal position. You may be better off making connections with professors that teach legal topics in the business school. Somebody mentioned applying to be a Landman in a previous reply. That's a good start.
2. It's hard to convince people to take a chance on you because they're afraid you'll leave when you find an "attorney" position somewhere else. You need to start thinking of ways to combat this perception while selling the positives you'll bring.
3. Friends/family will tell you that you are wasting your legal education if you aren't going to be an attorney. I'll agree that somebody with no intention of being a lawyer probably shouldn't decide to go to law school, but nobody anticipates changing their mind after they already begin law school. In other words, tell those people politely to keep their opinions to themselves because you're making your own way.
4. You don't know where your life is going to take you, but as long as you leverage your legal education whenever possible, you'll have a leg up on virtually all of your co-workers (who will not have a legal education). The same is true in your non-work life. For instance, I would've never had the confidence/knowledge to become a landlord had it not been for my Property, Contracts, and Real Estate classes in law school. This sort of thing will help make your 3-year sacrifice feel more worthwhile.
5. You should still sit for the Bar, even if you're not going to "use it" in your job.
Best of luck.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 1:38 pm to TheOcean
Don't know much about JAG, but I had several classmates get into that. That seem to be doing well for themselves and enjoy the work. Don't think they went to the MC JA.
I don't know what your 'life' situation is, but I'd give practice a go for a couple of years. I like Ace's suggestion that you find a defense firm to see if you like. I know plenty of lawyers that wouldn't do anything else. I can't imagine all those billables personally. If you don't like it, you can move over to the plaintiff's side. May try the same with public defender/prosecution/private criminal practice.
I don't know what your 'life' situation is, but I'd give practice a go for a couple of years. I like Ace's suggestion that you find a defense firm to see if you like. I know plenty of lawyers that wouldn't do anything else. I can't imagine all those billables personally. If you don't like it, you can move over to the plaintiff's side. May try the same with public defender/prosecution/private criminal practice.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 1:40 pm to Feed Me Popeyes
What type of position if you don't mind me asking?
Posted on 10/11/13 at 2:25 pm to Feed Me Popeyes
Despite my retroactive "good" advice to not having gone to law school in the first place:
Popeye's advice is dead solid perfect (or nearly so).
quote:
1. your law school career services people, unless they know specific individuals you can submit resumes to, will likely be worthless in your pursuit of a non-legal position. You may be better off making connections with professors that teach legal topics in the business school. Somebody mentioned applying to be a Landman in a previous reply. That's a good start.
2. It's hard to convince people to take a chance on you because they're afraid you'll leave when you find an "attorney" position somewhere else. You need to start thinking of ways to combat this perception while selling the positives you'll bring.
3. Friends/family will tell you that you are wasting your legal education if you aren't going to be an attorney. I'll agree that somebody with no intention of being a lawyer probably shouldn't decide to go to law school, but nobody anticipates changing their mind after they already begin law school. In other words, tell those people politely to keep their opinions to themselves because you're making your own way.
4. You don't know where your life is going to take you, but as long as you leverage your legal education whenever possible, you'll have a leg up on virtually all of your co-workers (who will not have a legal education). The same is true in your non-work life. For instance, I would've never had the confidence/knowledge to become a landlord had it not been for my Property, Contracts, and Real Estate classes in law school. This sort of thing will help make your 3-year sacrifice feel more worthwhile.
5. You should still sit for the Bar, even if you're not going to "use it" in your job.
Popeye's advice is dead solid perfect (or nearly so).
Posted on 10/11/13 at 2:31 pm to TheOcean
The tax departments of the Big 4 accounting firms hire attorneys regularly. The work is generally more compliance oriented (tax returns) than legal/research, but a legal education will be put to fair use.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 2:40 pm to TheOcean
My position is in a debt recovery function for a very large social program
As Mitch McDeere says in The Firm, "It's not sexy, but it's got teeth"
As Mitch McDeere says in The Firm, "It's not sexy, but it's got teeth"
Posted on 10/11/13 at 3:00 pm to Feed Me Popeyes
Awesome advice, I really appreciate it
I have a bunch of contacts up in DC and will probably try to intern there again this Summer. I will try to milk it for all it's worth -- I absolutely loved the work.
I have a bunch of contacts up in DC and will probably try to intern there again this Summer. I will try to milk it for all it's worth -- I absolutely loved the work.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 3:00 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
The tax departments of the Big 4 accounting firms hire attorneys regularly. The work is generally more compliance oriented (tax returns) than legal/research, but a legal education will be put to fair use.
I don't have a finance background. Is there anything I can do in law school or outside of law school to build that base?
Posted on 10/11/13 at 6:14 pm to TheOcean
When I worked in the contracts department at a fortune 5500 company I saw two different down on their luck lawyers come into our department. I think both were ok with the contracts type of stuff with hopes that they could try to move into the legal offices at HQ
You could also consider commercial real estate by adding some education.
You could also consider commercial real estate by adding some education.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 8:20 pm to gizmoflak
Trying to hook me up?
I don't have a a science/math background.
I don't have a a science/math background.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 9:24 pm to TheOcean
I'm in oil and gas doing A&D work...I practiced as an O&G lawyer for about 6 yrs, went inhouse with a small E&P and over time worked my way into A&D...wouldn't have happened without the law degree...that degree has made everything I'm doing now possible and gives me an edge in contract negotiations.
Bottom line a law degree has a lot of value outside of law - there are many options. The only limit is your imagination, will.
Bottom line a law degree has a lot of value outside of law - there are many options. The only limit is your imagination, will.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 9:35 pm to cwill
Could you have worked your way into A&D without your experience as an O&G lawyer?
I'm looking for jobs that I could jump into an entry level position straight from law school and work my way up.
I'm looking for jobs that I could jump into an entry level position straight from law school and work my way up.
This post was edited on 10/11/13 at 9:36 pm
Posted on 10/11/13 at 9:59 pm to TheOcean
In house Landman with one of the majors.
Posted on 10/12/13 at 1:42 am to cwill
There is a benefits firm that has grown exponentially here due to ACA. They have in-house administrators giving advice. I see that has a target job for attorneys who do not like office politics.
Posted on 10/15/13 at 7:00 am to matthew25
Graduated from LSU in 07' and I was in the same boat as you. I started up a mid-size CPA firm in Houston doing State & Local Tax work. (because it paid $10k better than my Big 4 offer) I now manage a group within a large O&G service company's tax department.
Law school didn't explicitly prepare me for my job, but I think it's given me an advantage over the traditional CPAs that I've worked alongside.
Law school didn't explicitly prepare me for my job, but I think it's given me an advantage over the traditional CPAs that I've worked alongside.
Posted on 10/15/13 at 9:38 am to cwill
quote:
In house Landman with one of the majors.
Not exactly giving those away to every Tom, Dick and Harry with a JD these days. Every job posting I see - from majors and independents - requires at least 5 years experience and probably gets filled with an internal hire or someone's son-in-law. I've been looking weekly for 2 years.
This post was edited on 10/15/13 at 9:39 am
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