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Debunking wild conspiricies

Posted on 5/21/14 at 2:20 pm
Posted by MagicCityBlazer
Member since Nov 2010
3686 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 2:20 pm
I love to listen to conspiracies for personal amusement. I just can't get over why the Banks would want inflation at all.

Is there more explanation to this available at all? Because wouldn't they want the money to deflate to increase the value of their savings?
Posted by Hawkeye95
Member since Dec 2013
20293 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 2:31 pm to
the only people who want inflation are those in debt, or the gov't. And the gov't only wants it to "grease the skids" a bit.

inflation screws pretty much everyone but debt holders, and then its arguable they get screwed too.

Posted by MagicCityBlazer
Member since Nov 2010
3686 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

the only people who want inflation are those in debt, or the gov't. And the gov't only wants it to "grease the skids" a bit.


What I'm still not getting is why the Fed Reserve would so willingly soak the lenders with inflation?
Posted by Hawkeye95
Member since Dec 2013
20293 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 2:47 pm to
quote:

What I'm still not getting is why the Fed Reserve would so willingly soak the lenders with inflation?


well the fed is doing the bidding of the gov't by "greasing the skids"
Posted by The Sultan of Swine
Member since Nov 2010
7740 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 2:48 pm to
I guess if we're talking about banks or other businesses being bailed out by the fed... there's obviously reasons the beneficiaries want that inflation. They wouldn't want it just for the sake of inflation, but for the freshly printed money.
This post was edited on 5/21/14 at 2:50 pm
Posted by sneakytiger
Member since Oct 2007
2471 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 3:14 pm to
Everything else being equal, inflation makes it easier for borrowers to repay debts, which is a good thing in the eyes of a bank. Banks don't sit on cash, they lend and invest it.
Posted by The Sultan of Swine
Member since Nov 2010
7740 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 3:16 pm to
inflation makes it easier to repay debts because you're actually paying back less (in real value) than you would be otherwise. Banks don't want that.
Posted by sneakytiger
Member since Oct 2007
2471 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 3:18 pm to
Banks like it when borrowers default?
Posted by The Sultan of Swine
Member since Nov 2010
7740 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 3:19 pm to
A bank could make it easier to pay back a loan at any point they want. They don't need inflation for that. Just lower the amount owed.
Posted by sneakytiger
Member since Oct 2007
2471 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 3:27 pm to
Okay, which translates into losses. Banks like losing money?

My point is between inflation or deflation, a bank wants inflation.
This post was edited on 5/21/14 at 3:28 pm
Posted by The Sultan of Swine
Member since Nov 2010
7740 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 3:29 pm to
Nope, which is why they don't like inflation in that sense.

It's exactly the same thing. Inflation lowers the value of what will be repaid to the bank. Lowering the interest rate/amount owed on a loan would have exact the same effect.
Posted by Mr.Perfect
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2013
17438 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

A bank could make it easier to pay back a loan at any point they want. They don't need inflation for that. Just lower the amount owed


and take a loss? i hope you mean to lower the interest rate or something
Posted by The Sultan of Swine
Member since Nov 2010
7740 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 3:49 pm to
Y'all aren't understanding.

Inflation
Lowering amount owed
Lowering interest rate

These all have exactly the same effect from the banks point of view: The amount they receive in loan repayment (in real terms) is less than it would be otherwise.

I'm not saying banks would want to lower the amount owed. I'm using that as a comparison to show how silly the idea that inflation helps banks because it makes loans easier to repay is.
This post was edited on 5/21/14 at 3:51 pm
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

Because wouldn't they want the money to deflate to increase the value of their savings?


Banks do not want to save, they want *you* to save so they can lend the money out at a higher rate and profit off the difference. For the most part banks don't care all that much about the rate of inflation provided it is reasonably constant. They care about the difference between what they have to pay out to savers vs. what they can earn by charging borrowers.

Deflation hurts an economy because people can just hoard cash, there's less incentive to spend it on anything. This is bad for banks.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 4:16 pm to
We need those two smug bankers in this thread in order to make me week complete.
Posted by BennyAndTheInkJets
Middle of a layover
Member since Nov 2010
5593 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

I just can't get over why the Banks would want inflation at all.

What conspiracy theories have you heard regarding this?
quote:

Is there more explanation to this available at all? Because wouldn't they want the money to deflate to increase the value of their savings?

The Fed, banks, businesses, and economic activity as a whole will benefit with a slow, steady rate of inflation. The basic concept is if you know a TV is going to be worth more next week than it is now, you'll buy it now. If you think a TV is going to be worth less next week, you'll save and not spend. This is the basic idea why deflation is so hurtful to an economy, people don't spend so businesses have to cut prices which creates a deflationary spiral. On the flip side too much inflation will cause prices to rise more than wages, while the mark to market value of lender's assets will plummet and total return will not be overcome by the income component of these assets. Inflation is the ultimate Goldilocks entity, not too hot, not too cold, just right.

I also can assume what some of the conspiracy theories you've heard entail. There are very, very few financial conspiracy theories that I would say are legit. Some exist, but 98% of the time these conspiracy theories are spawned from a lack of understanding on how finance actually works.
Posted by BennyAndTheInkJets
Middle of a layover
Member since Nov 2010
5593 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

We need those two smug bankers in this thread in order to make me week complete.

I'm I one of these guys?

:crossesfingers:
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 5:40 pm to
Nope, you're good Benny. I don't like the Fed and central bankers as much as you, but you generally see the other side of the argument when it has basis. Others? Not so much.
Posted by MagicCityBlazer
Member since Nov 2010
3686 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 6:15 pm to
quote:

The Fed, banks, businesses, and economic activity as a whole will benefit with a slow, steady rate of inflation.


How are you so certain?

I understand that the economy growing is helpful but they are intentionally distorting the economy without even being sure that easy money is the right policy. It is gambling with other people's livelihoods.

Sometimes saving is the correct response for long term growth. The idea that fed bankers are manipulating everyone makes me upset.
This post was edited on 5/21/14 at 6:17 pm
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 5/21/14 at 9:27 pm to
quote:

How are you so certain?


Because a slow but steady inflation rate people not to take cash out of circulation, i.e. hoard it. People will either spend it or invest it instead in an effort not to fall behind.

BTW, I'm making a distinction here between saving as in investing vs. saving as in just hoarding cash. Investing savings in a fund or stock is fine, it's when you take cash out of circulation by just letting it sit unused in a checking account that investment and spending activity suffer, and so does the economy.

Deflation is bad because then people have an incentive to just let cash sit idle.
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