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Annuity Question for Money Board?

Posted on 5/10/15 at 6:54 pm
Posted by DieSmilen
My Rubbermaid Desk
Member since Dec 2007
1726 posts
Posted on 5/10/15 at 6:54 pm
I have a relative who is going to settle a workers compensation claim and should get close to 200k after lawyer fees. This relative is wanting to put it all in an annuity any suggestions? She is in her 70's and looking for something that would give her a fixed amount monthly
Posted by TheHiddenFlask
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
18384 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 7:38 am to
This is actually the perfect scenario for an annuity.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37034 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:46 am to
quote:

This is actually the perfect scenario for an annuity.


Did you see in the OP where the person was in their 70s?

I'd be nervous about putting someone in their 70s into a fixed annuity, unless there were some guarantee refunds, or guarantee number of payments, or payments to a second person, etc.
Posted by iknowmorethanyou
Paydirt
Member since Jul 2007
6545 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:50 am to
Plenty of better options than to annuitize at such a young age...depending upon health. If the party is unhealthy, an impaired SPIA could provide a healthy income.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37034 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 10:55 am to
quote:

lenty of better options than to annuitize at such a young age


70s is a young age? I know people are living longer especially when healthy, but...
Posted by dwr353
Member since Oct 2007
2130 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 11:32 am to
I would not recommend it. She is locking in at a time of record low interest payments. When she takes a settlement option, the money is the issuing company's, no longer hers. Even with a period certain I have never recommended it to a client unless they have no heirs. I think she would be better off in a dividend focused etf or an assortment of blue chip dividend paying stocks, with no more than 10% in any one company.
Posted by iknowmorethanyou
Paydirt
Member since Jul 2007
6545 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 11:33 am to
With the reduction in base payout rates, yes. There are some deferral strategies that allow for higher ultimate payouts in the 80s.
Posted by TheHiddenFlask
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
18384 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 12:16 pm to
Yeah. The advantage here is the tax deferral, which will reduce effective rates. She can put it on a 3, 5, or 10 year payout if she wants, but annuities are mainly for the deferral of taxes on a lump sum.
Posted by DieSmilen
My Rubbermaid Desk
Member since Dec 2007
1726 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 2:06 pm to
Thank you all for the information. She does have health issues, so based on your suggestions an annuity should be off the table. I am not sure she is comfortable with stocks, is there anything else she should look at.
Posted by TheHiddenFlask
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
18384 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 2:20 pm to
There was not a single good suggestion against an annuity. There are just some insane haters that read 13% of a finance book that bashed it.

I shoot down 99% of all annuities "investment" comments made here, as it is a niche product that snake oil slinging financial advisors often push because they get big kickbacks. This is not the case here.

To the guy that said it's the issuing company's money: do you not believe bonds because it's the issuing company's money. What about cash? It's the issuing entity's money. That's an absurd Argument.

Putin her in a 10 year annuity might not be right (this was never my suggestion), but a 3 or a 5 year would save her a lot of money in taxes and give her a safe return, however small, that would not be out of line with any of the other appropriate investment vehicles available.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37034 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 2:41 pm to
quote:

a 3 or a 5 year would save her a lot of money in taxes and give her a safe return, however small, that would not be out of line with any of the other appropriate investment vehicles available.


so she should pay the annuity fees to perhaps save a bit in taxes (without knowing what her tax situation looks like)?

I agree that annuities are somewhat useful in limited situations, with a person of this age, I would tread very, very carefully.
Posted by iknowmorethanyou
Paydirt
Member since Jul 2007
6545 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

DieSmilen


If she's unhealthy, you should ABSOLUTELY look into a "Medically Underwritten Single Premium Immediate Annuity" with part of the funds. I don't know that I would put everything there given liquidity concerns...unless that hole is plugged.
This post was edited on 5/11/15 at 3:31 pm
Posted by iknowmorethanyou
Paydirt
Member since Jul 2007
6545 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 3:32 pm to
Immediate and Fixed Annuities rarely have fees.

Index Annuities will have fees if a Lifetime Income Benefit Rider is attached...typically around 1% per year.

Variable Annuities can have annual fees upwards of 4% with all the bullshite those guys throw on there.
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4579 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 3:41 pm to
Wrong..
Posted by iknowmorethanyou
Paydirt
Member since Jul 2007
6545 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 3:44 pm to
Enlighten me. I've been doing this for 20 years.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37034 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

Enlighten me. I've been doing this for 20 years.


Props to you for defending your product. I think you are wrong, but hey, you gotta believe in what you sell...
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4579 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 3:54 pm to
OP go see an advisor who will look at this situation more deeply than some folks on the inter web...

IKnowMore... Good for you, I do this as well. VA's are gonna provide more flexibility, better potential return, more liquidity. (Not saying I even recommend an annuity in this case).

A loaded down variable annuity with bells n whistles will charge about 2.5%/yr. however you're paying for something with that, usually it's a Guaranteed income stream regardless of performance and without annuitizing the product.

An indexed annuity typically has a surrender period 15yrs + with a surrender charge of 15% + and a capped performance rate of 75%. They're the reason the dept of labor is coming down on the industry, not to mention they're not even regulated by finra.

Some of Yall are so dadgum hung up on fee's here it's ridiculous.. I mean do Yall find the cheapest vehicle, cheapest clothes, cheapest food, etc.... You absolutely need to know what you're paying for and weigh the pros/cons but.. you get what you pay for.
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 4:01 pm to
I think a very important question here is does she have any other assets. If not, why would you lock up liquidity especially if she has health issues and may need care givers?
Posted by iknowmorethanyou
Paydirt
Member since Jul 2007
6545 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 4:03 pm to
Surrender Charge is only relevant if she exceeds 10% withdrawal...which we all agree exceeds recommended rates.

The SPIA will get her the payouts she wants if she's 73 and qualifies as an 80 year old.

I'm not preaching annuity. He came in asking for it. Might as well let him know what his options are.

You know the tools selling Jackson National are going all in at 3.8%. We all know THAT GUY.
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4579 posts
Posted on 5/11/15 at 4:13 pm to
Well since you brought up JNL then yes I will agree with you on that lol.. I did transfer in one once and saw how much he was paying and my jaw dropped..

I rarely preach annuities unless they have a high reliance ratio on investment withdrawals and the typical VA I use is in the the 2-2.5% ball park loaded down.
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