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re: Tj slowly putting non believers and haters 2 rest
Posted on 2/21/12 at 1:36 pm to Topwater Trout
Posted on 2/21/12 at 1:36 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
I miss the days when making the tourney was almost a given. There has to be a way to restore the program to the way it was in the 80's.
While I will agree, making the tournament every year should be A goal...you act like LSU basketball was on top of the world back then. We still didn't have much to show for it. We only won the SEC 3 times in the 80s and 90s. We made the Sweet 16 a grand total of 4 times in the 80s and 90s.
LSU is not some grand destination for recruits and coaches to flock to and the sooner you can come to terms with that, the sooner you will realize it is gonna take time to build this program up.
It is only reasonably to give Trent Johnson time to build this program up the way he wants to do it. The results are already beginning to pay off. Just give him time.
2
Posted on 2/21/12 at 2:11 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
It just seems that the fans have accepted mediocrity with BB
Just read this interesting tidbit on a pay-for site:
Only seven of LSU's past 20 teams had at least six conference victories heading into the final two weeks of the regular season.
Two of those teams were Dale Brown's & four were Brady's.
It appears that the athletic program may have accepted it as well.
This post was edited on 2/21/12 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 2/21/12 at 2:36 pm to omegaman66
quote:
Thank goodness TJ didn't burn every scholarship he had when he first hired on that was available. If he had we would be loaded with subpar players. For the first time in years are able to put five guys on the court that can play ball.
Couldn't disagree more! This is the one thing I can't forgive Trent for. If he had gotten a couple of good JC players to bring in with him, we would have had at least halfway decent teams the second and third years. Then those JC players would have graduated and we would still have had scholarships for Hickey, OBryant, and Hamilton.
I think that the only reason we weren't loaded with sub par players anyway is that they transferred - Dotson, Derenbecker or are still on the roster - Courtney.
Instead we had to endure two of the worst seasons I can ever remember since Brad Brian and Kenny Drost were playing guard.
This post was edited on 2/21/12 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 2/21/12 at 2:43 pm to Tom Bronco
quote:
Couldn't disagree more! This is the one thing I can't forgive Trent for. If he had gotten a couple of good JC players to bring in with him, we would have had at least halfway decent teams the second and third years.
Do you even remotely understand recruiting at all? Any JC player worth a damn was being recruited for years by other schools. Recruits weren't exactly tearing the door down to get in here.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 2:52 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
making the tournament every year should be A goal...you act like LSU basketball was on top of the world back then. We still didn't have much to show for it. We only won the SEC 3 times in the 80s and 90s. We made the Sweet 16 a grand total of 4 times in the 80s and 90s.
We were a consistent contender in the SEC and a perennial NCAA tournament team. While you only quoted the stats for the '80s and '90s, we also had an SEC title and Sweet 16 appearance in 1979, and an SEC Tournament championship in 1980. We also got flat-out cheated out of another SEC championship in 1992 at Arkansas. The only reason we didn't make the Sweet 16 in 1992 was the bullshite #7 seed the committee assigned us as punishment to Dale Brown for coming onto the court when Shaq got assaulted in the SEC tournament. The 1979, 1980, 1981, 1986 and 1987 teams all advanced in the NCAA tournament all the way until they met up with the eventual champions. Stability and consistent performance were there for a good, solid 15 years. In several of the years when we didn't win the SEC title, we were very much in the hunt for it, barely missing it in 1980 and the aforementioned 1992. The 1986 team was a contender until practically the whole team got chicken pox and we lost our best inside player in Nikita Wilson, and we still made it to the Final Four. Our 10-year run of consecutive NCAA tournament appearances from 1984 through 1993 was among the five or six longest streaks of consecutive appearances at the time. Blowing out Kentucky when we had them on our court wasn't just a pipe dream, it happened...repeatedly.
Everybody knows that the program was dealt a crushing blow with probation, but that was a long time ago. LSU was a strong basketball program before that, and there's no reason it shouldn't be again.
quote:
it is gonna take time to build this program up.
It is only reasonably to give Trent Johnson time to build this program up the way he wants to do it. The results are already beginning to pay off. Just give him time
I can agree with this. It does take time. But there's no reason to think like this...
quote:
LSU is not some grand destination for recruits and coaches to flock
LSU had great recruiting under Dale Brown, and it really wasn't bad under John Brady, either, for the most part. If it doesn't pick up under Trent Johnson, and flirting with .500 in the SEC and hoping for a longshot NCAA invitation is all he can do, then that should not be acceptable. It's not time to fire Johnson, but this season would not satisfy any other school in the SEC, and it shouldn't satisfy LSU. Rick Stansbury has a better record and a hell of a lot better chance at an NCAA tournament berth than we do and he's in danger of getting fired...at MISSISSIPPI FREAKING STATE!
We've turned around long periods of mediocrity in both baseball and football within the past 30 years by hiring good coaches who got it done and firing mediocre ones who didn't. In both cases, the turnaround was almost immediate. There's no reason not to expect the same in basketball.
This post was edited on 2/21/12 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 2/21/12 at 3:09 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Do you even remotely understand recruiting at all? Any JC player worth a damn was being recruited for years by other schools. Recruits weren't exactly tearing the door down to get in here.
Well you could be right. Perhaps I don't understand recruiting. But I'm not talking about 4 or 5 star players, the cream of the crop. I'm just talking about solid, fundamentally sound players with experience who could have been consistent steady role players.
How many more games could we have won last year if we had an experienced point guard to take the pressure off of Stringer and let him play shooting guard last year? Or a good shooting guard Trent's second year that would have been there when Dotson performed so subpar?
As far as how hard it is to get players to come here, I do understand that. I also understand that is why we pay coaches such huge amounts of money.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 3:42 pm to Tom Bronco
quote:
players with experience who could have been consistent steady role players.
Oh so you mean like the guys we have now (Storm, Bass, Issac, White, hell even Eddie to some extent). If you did that and had these JUCO guys go out after last year then we'd have to find all those role players AGAIN before this season for the most part.
I wasn't happy with the last two years by any stretch, but now that I see we have good role players on the bench with our starting 5 (that will only get better with the addition Morgan and hopefully a decent finish to the recruiting class) I've gotten over it and am looking forward to the rest of this year and the future of LSU Basketball.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 4:02 pm to PinevilleTiger
quote:
Until he gets us to at least a Final 4, I will continue to think he's the worst recruiter and coach in modern LSU basketball history.
There is no reason LSU can't be a regular visitor to the NCAA tourney.
5 visits in bout the last 18 years, 2 sweet 16 appearances in 23 years, and 3 SEC titles in the last 20 years tells me we been a long way from being a regular NCAA visitor no matter who the coach was in bout the past 20 years.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 4:08 pm to NEKCIHCUSL
We are better than I thought we'd be. We are really solid on defense, but man our offense looks like a pickup game most of the time coming don the court. We should be a really solid team next year with key contributors coming back.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 4:15 pm to Lonnie4LSU
Would you agree we are at least heading in the right direction now? Just curious. I think we are personally, it might take some time, but I see us taking strides in that direction
Posted on 2/21/12 at 6:51 pm to Tigerfan7218
quote:
Would you agree we are at least heading in the right direction now?
As of right now...yes.
But it's all gonna depend on recruiting in the next two seasons.
Like Gathers or not, think he's the best in the state or not, but we can't afford to lose state guys like him and have hopes of bringing LSU back to a regular player in the NCAA tourney. imo
Posted on 2/21/12 at 7:41 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Are you really that ignorant? Our program was in the gutter thanks to John Brady and it's taking time to build it back up. We are getting better as a program, and if you can't see that you need to just stop following Lsu basketball.
Gutter explain ignorant Mick, dale brown left a gutter, he won the SEC with what brady left him, give me a break. Not sure what TJ is building so far although he has got better talent this year. The talent level has improved this year it had no where else to go but up. But to say Brady left this program in the gutter is IGNORANT. Tj chose to sit on his arse and not get just one decent player to play with taz and storm who were still here, taz is hardly a gutter player left from the previous guy. I am glad to see we will not finish last three years in a row and glad to see we beat the teams we are suppose to, but am truly bummed out we cannot compete with the leagues best teams. I want LSU to compete with Kentucky and Florida, four years in we are not even close. Four years in we are praying to get to the post season. So we want to build a consistent mediocre program is that what we want here, cause that's what we have. We have to get the same type of kid Kentucky, and Florida get until then we will be mediocre. Four years in we still do not have the talent to compete at that level which is what we need to be striving for. Getting blown out at home to Kentucky, blown out in Florida, Vandy and bama is not a whole lot to be excited about. The only team we beat that we shouldn't have is Marquette, four years in. I for one would have hoped we would be farther along with this "building process". Let's be realistic here, when your first two signees were bass and ludwig I am questioning your building plan. TJ should have signed a couple of JC's for the second year to build on. He has definitely done better signing players, but for the most part they are second tier players. Four years in he has signed FOUR legit D1 players, Hickey, Hamilton, Turner and JOB, and now Morgan for his fifth year. There are plenty of coaches who would argue your gutter phrase. I would hardly call the talent he was handed "the gutter".
Posted on 2/21/12 at 7:44 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
but we can't afford to lose state guys like him and have hopes of bringing LSU back to a regular player in the NCAA tourney. imo
I agree, but I still don't believe that his recruitment is over yet, I don't give us much of a shot, but I could certainly see him swapping (again) and signing here if we have a strong finish
Posted on 2/21/12 at 7:52 pm to Tigerfan7218
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We miss on too much LA talent
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You say this and then list one example? That's a compelling argument. Hell I'll even give you a 2nd one since I assume the this year part is about Gathers. But who else? Two players?
Same class as Galloway was Markel Brown and Brian Williams. Both ringing up significant time at OK State. Not a bad program.
Trent really needed to get two of those guys, if not all of them.
He threw up an airball.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 7:56 pm to hybrid3
quote:
Not a bad program.
They are currently 13-14 with better talent than what we have right now.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 8:03 pm to c on z
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a bad program.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They are currently 13-14 with better talent than what we have right now.
Maybe. They are in a much better conference. With wins over Mizzou and Texas.
Point being, we would be better with those two and Galloway. I can tell you Galloway barely got a sniff from TJ.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 8:06 pm to hybrid3
quote:
Same class as Galloway was Markel Brown and Brian Williams. Both ringing up significant time at OK State. Not a bad program.
OK State sucks fwiw, I do think we should have signed Galloway and Brown though.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 8:16 pm to Mickey Goldmill
Int the late 70s through early 90s they had a
program that was respected and Dale did what
Skip did in baseball without titles of course. Dale
marketed LSU by playing everyone. Georgetown
in the dome for example. At one point I remember
LSU had made the tourney 13 years in a row(I am
uncertain of the number) but only 2 other teams had
more consecutive years than LSU. I consider that to
be very respectable and to want that type of program
again should be our goal.
program that was respected and Dale did what
Skip did in baseball without titles of course. Dale
marketed LSU by playing everyone. Georgetown
in the dome for example. At one point I remember
LSU had made the tourney 13 years in a row(I am
uncertain of the number) but only 2 other teams had
more consecutive years than LSU. I consider that to
be very respectable and to want that type of program
again should be our goal.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 9:41 pm to jr33
quote:
I would hardly call the talent he was handed "the gutter".
He had talent his first year, but they were all upperclassman. The program was a joke at the end of Brady's time here. During the past 15 years, we have NEVER been consistent. We would have a good year every now and then when we got a good recruit to come here, but that's it. That star recruit would leave and we would have to start all over again.
Trent Johnson, from the VERY BEGINNING, pretty much said those days are over. He chose to build a consistent program with players who will be here longer than 1 year. That takes time and we are just now starting to see the results of that.
We shouldn't hope to just "make the tournament every year like back in the glory days." How bout we give TJ time to build up a solid program so that in a couple years we can actually compete for something worth being really proud of.
We are on the way. He is making connections with recruits, showing them the progress of our program. Our talent level is getting better and better. Just chill out people. NOBODY was gonna come in here and beat Kentucky in his 4th year given the state of our program. You people really need to realize that.
Posted on 2/21/12 at 9:52 pm to Tigerfan7218
quote:
I wasn't happy with the last two years by any stretch, but now that I see we have good role players on the bench with our starting 5 (that will only get better with the addition
Well we are in agreement then. I was only referring to the two previous years not to the present. As one who bleeds LSU basketball, I stayed faithful and watched all of those games on Geaux Zone. Just wish I hadn't had to suffer so much that's all. Bass was there but Trent didn't play him much. Don't know why. I would think that would be a legitimate criticism of Trent. I'm not in the fire him group but I do hold him responsible for doing a good job.
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