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re: Sports comparisons to battle

Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:47 pm to
Posted by NLabosstiger
Member since Mar 2008
1279 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:47 pm to
inb4kellenwinslow
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89531 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:48 pm to
I teach military history for Command and General Staff College for the USAR.

Football, in particular emulates linear warfare from the classic and medieval periods to a great degree. It is physically violent. There is an offense and defense (those terms are direct lifts from warfare) - the goal is ground acquisition. Running the ball is akin to a ground assault. Passing is similar to either ranged weapon attacks or modern attack aircraft, although it is a simple matter to stretch the analogy too far.

We don't use the military terms and make them fit football, the terms are used because they fit football.

Your point is valid to a certain degree, to non-violent, more technical sports, but, again, usually a team is defending a "goal" and another team is trying to score on that "goal".

Have you considered the possibility that sport arose as an alternative to or preparation (because there is very little doubt that this is true) for warfare and that is why common concepts and terminology have evolved?

Posted by jacost7
Covington, LA
Member since Aug 2007
223 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:49 pm to
Most people do not do it as a comparison, that is why I laugh at it when I hear it. I look at Herbetriet and think, "A day in the desert might make him understand the USC is not everything." Probably not!
Posted by bluestem75
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2007
3229 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:50 pm to
I really hate made up nouns used by commentators:

aggressiveness (real word: aggression)
comfortability (real word: comfort)
humbleness (real word: humility)

any others?
Posted by silverthorn
Fort Collins, CO
Member since Nov 2011
724 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:51 pm to
A guy saying "that game was a war out there" or "it's gonna be a war" doesnt really bother me, but the constant mention of "combat" and "we are soldiers" does irk me a little bit. I mean, come on, you're not a soldier and its not a real battle so you don't need to be wearing camo (ie kellen winslow and the u). In sports i do understand the field of play being called a battleground and a solid leader being referred to as the general (i've done it plenty myself as a player and coach), but the constant self-comparison to real soldiers and combat does aggravate me.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89531 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:52 pm to
quote:

aggressiveness (real word: aggression)


I'm guilty of using that one, but it's incorrect.

Posted by jacost7
Covington, LA
Member since Aug 2007
223 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:54 pm to
You mean when gladiators fought to the death? I wonder if they had personal fouls for roughing the sword swinger back then? Great point but sports back then, when the terms were probably created, had a little more "life and death" aspect to them than today.
Posted by jpbTiger
Tampa FL
Member since Dec 2007
4973 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:54 pm to
quote:

bluestem75



Athleticism?
Posted by jacost7
Covington, LA
Member since Aug 2007
223 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:55 pm to
Well said and good point.
Posted by RBWilliams8
Member since Oct 2009
53417 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:57 pm to
The art of war doesn't sell so well because people are preparing for a war. It's the universal metaphor that gets people pumped about something they're passionate about.

Nobody intends to undermine those who risk their lives for actual war.
Posted by jpbTiger
Tampa FL
Member since Dec 2007
4973 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 12:58 pm to
quote:

I mean, come on, you're not a soldier and its not a real battle so you don't need to be wearing camo (ie kellen winslow and the u). In sports i do understand the field of play being called a battleground and a solid leader being referred to as the general (i've done it plenty myself as a player and coach), but the constant self-comparison to real soldiers and combat does aggravate me.


Again, I disagree. to each his own I guess, but what those guys are going through is truly very similar to what our guys go through in training for combat, so the analogy is a good one and frankly doesn't bother me at all...
Posted by bluestem75
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2007
3229 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

Athleticism?


I think that's actually a word. Not sure what the alternative would be...
Posted by jacost7
Covington, LA
Member since Aug 2007
223 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 1:01 pm to
Probably more true than we think. Just like sex sells and we have to watch the commercials over and over during this time of the year for a perfume that has a man in a "bannana hammock" all over the screen.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89531 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

Great point but sports back then, when the terms were probably created, had a little more "life and death" aspect to them than today.


Didn't everything? Minor infection could lead to death. A minor wound that we would practically walk off today would potentially be fatal then. Food and water supply for the average civilian was of spotty quality, at best - combine that with crowded living conditions, no fast means of communication, no medical care to speak of, etc.

But I didn't necessarily mean blood sports, at least exclusively. The Olympics in ancient Greece - that was originally all of the soldier's skills (as is the modern pentathlon) of the time, and it served double duty many years as Sparta, Thebes, Athens, etc. could compete without having to suit up and prove it on the battlefield. With this background, it isn't shocking to discover that the same people peforming in both endeavors (sports and soldiering), with similar competitive goals (you would agree that combat is a competitive endeavor, yes?) would use similar conceptual processes and, ultimately, a similar lexicon.
This post was edited on 12/16/11 at 1:03 pm
Posted by jpbTiger
Tampa FL
Member since Dec 2007
4973 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

I think that's actually a word. Not sure what the alternative would be...


It wasn't a word a few years ago, but I think the best alternative is actually two words - "athletic ability", so we're probably stuck with this one because its easier for the intellectually challenged arseclowns in the broadcasting booth to say...

Posted by jpbTiger
Tampa FL
Member since Dec 2007
4973 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 1:06 pm to
quote:

Ace Midnight


Um, I think I agree with you but you used a lot of big words and a lot of long sentences, so I'm not quite sure.... Either way
Posted by jacost7
Covington, LA
Member since Aug 2007
223 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 1:07 pm to
I am not sure the goals are exactly the same. To Win - yes, to Die - not so much. Yes I agree that both are competitive but are seperated today by their consequences of bad performance.
Posted by clamdip
Rocky Mountain High
Member since Sep 2004
17887 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

I had a friend who wanted to do this and I talked him out of it. What the frick do you do for a living if I may ask?
fwiw, i went to undergrad with a friend who then went on a couple years later and got a master in Sports Admin.

He's now a SrVP in one of the "big 3" pro sports leagues.

cha-freakin'-ching.
Posted by jacost7
Covington, LA
Member since Aug 2007
223 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 1:12 pm to
I can only wish about making that kind of "bank"
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89531 posts
Posted on 12/16/11 at 1:13 pm to
quote:

I am not sure the goals are exactly the same.


I guess that's why I said "similar competitive goals".

quote:

I agree that both are competitive but are seperated today by their consequences of bad performance.


Sure, but, for that matter, modern business uses lots of military terminology (as does the legal profession, even medicine when describing an "attack" on a disease drifts into mortiferous imagery) and much of that arises, at least in modern usage from the massive influx of discharged US servicemen in the late 40s. Concepts like a "mission statement" which are common in business now is a military concept borrowed by business which, in some ways, is a better analogy for warfare than sport - it is more serious and the consequences for people's lives are closer to what losing soldiers face than defeated sportsmen.
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