re: Sobering Info About LSU's Baseball Program

Ok so in your opinion, LSU hasn't been as good as teams such as Florida and Vandy due to our SOS? I just don't understand why you keep bringing that up.

You avoided the question. What is the exact point you are trying to make by bringing up SOS? If it's that LSU really hasn't been as good as their record suggests compared to the rest of the conference, wouldnt that be revealed in say the SEC tournaments?

Ok then if we were "right up there" with Vandy and Florida, then why try to diminish our SEC title based on a subjective SOS argument?

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It's weird that I get labeled as a negatiger when the basis of my argument is that I think we ARE good and good enough to win it year in and year out. Our teams have certainly been good enough.

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Okay, well lots of teams are good enough to win it all year in and year out. I would assume you'd know that the recruiting rankings are typically the same teams every year.

The point is that you refuse to acknowledge LSU doesn't have some gigantic talent gap between itself and the rest of the top 10. You make it sound like all the top recruits are just beating down the door to play for LSU baseball, when the reality is that baseball is a different type of recruiting demographic compared to college football.


More often than not these families come from upper middle class to even very affluent families, and not every family values a shot at a national title over a big scholarship at an excellent private institution. Hell, they can get both of those for the most part. It's a not a calculus problem to explain why Vanderbilt, Florida, UCLA, and TCU are killing it on the recruiting trail.

I'm at LSU and am proud I'll have a good degree with no debt, but LSU is a great value school. Meanwhile, the 4 schools I listed above beating us on the trail are big time academic institutions. Our biggest competition in college baseball are big time private institutions, and I can't get myself to be mad at Maineri when he loses a top recruit from a nice suburb to Vanderbilt

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tigerbait2010

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Okay, well lots of teams are good enough to win it all year in and year out. I would assume you'd know that the recruiting rankings are typically the same teams every year.

The point is that you refuse to acknowledge LSU doesn't have some gigantic talent gap between itself and the rest of the top 10. You make it sound like all the top recruits are just beating down the door to play for LSU baseball, when the reality is that baseball is a different type of recruiting demographic compared to college football.


More often than not these families come from upper middle class to even very affluent families, and not every family values at a shot at a national title over a big scholarship at an excellent private institution. Hell, they can get both of those for the most part. It's a not a calculus problem to explain why Vanderbilt, Florida, UCLA, and TCU are killing it on the recruiting trail.

I'm at LSU and am proud I'll have a good degree with no debt, but LSU is a great value school. Our biggest competition in college baseball are big time private institutions, and I can't get myself to be mad at Maineri when he loses a stop recruit from a nice suburb to Vanderbilt

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No offense, but your age makes it difficult to discuss the subject with those who saw 11.7 and private institutions recruiting alongside LSU in the 90's when we tore their asses up. We were perennial Omaha damage doers in that we didn't just go there to say hello.

All of these breathless Mainieri supporters have-as I said-effectively reframed the argument so that people are irrational for not recognizing the greatness that Pauline and his regular and SECT Championships are.

There was a time when we wouldn't piss on the SECT if it were on fire. It had ZERO importance because the real goal was Omaha and winning there.

Pauline supporters talk about how the game has changed, but Skip was around for 8 team regionals. Those were much, MUCH more difficult to emerge out of and make it Omaha. Think about it this way. You had two 1 seeds and two 2 seeds in every regional played under the old format and Skip repeatedly won them and made it to Omaha.

While dealing with 11.7. While dealing with MLB. While dealing with the Stanford's and the Vandy's of the world. He adjusted and the final three years of his career also made it to the Sub Regionals and Super Regional Format.

He was a grand total of 2 wins away from back-to-back-to-back trips to Omaha in that format as well.

What Pauline supporters are doing-and what they have effectively done for some time now-is reframed the debate to focus fan attention on achievements that were not ever the goals of our team and program. Want proof?

We talk about dominant regular seasons and top 8 seeds and Regular Season success...and Skip did too. But only once.

Real LSU Baseball Fans will remember that year. The team's motto was, "Wire to Wire," and it was meant to mean that we would dominate for an entire year. From the first to the last, we would focus on regular season, SECT and Regionals and Omaha.

LSU flamed out, didn't reach Omaha, and Bertman publicly admitted that THERE WAS TOO MUCH PRESSURE on the team with that mindset and focus.

I find it humorous that so many fans have allowed Pauline supporters to reframe the argument though. We shouldn't expect championships. Not because Pauline can't win them though, they'll tell you. It's that nobody can anymore.

They'll tell you we should expect regular season, division and SECT titles. But not because that's all Pauline is consistent at or focuses on, they'll tell you. It's that those achievements are the only things we should expect our coach to be able to do.

Effectively reframing the debate around Pauline's limitations, and away from this program's perennial championship aspirations. Which is what built us into what we are today.

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And at the end, what separates those teams? Typically, it's coaching. PM's last two trips: not bunting Rhymes twice and Starting Person along with all the other joke pitching changes he made in game 3.

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Do you think Corbin and all the other coaches we measure Maineri up to haven't had epic frick ups over the years? Didn't an incredible 2007 Vanderbilt team choke to Michigan in the Supers? I would imagine Coach Corbin would tell you he made plenty of stupid calls. That's just one of countless examples.

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One of those is not like the other. But LSU has only had a talent gap 2 years... '97 and '98 with only 1 of those being championship seasons.

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So did Skip make some coaching errors? I really don't know, but if we had vastly superior talent than he had to have made a few coaching blunders. I don't blame him. It happens.

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Only 2 of the 4 schools you mentioned were private. Vandy is the only private college to win it all in the last 10 years. And rice is the only other CWS champion in the last 23 years. How the hell did a public institution win it the other 21 times (5 of them being LSU)?!?!?

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Let me rephrase-top tier academic institutions. You understood my point that UCLA and Florida are still far superior academic institutions when measured up to LSU.

I'm just basing this off of basic trend analysis of how recruiting is unfolding. I said nothing about our historic competition being solely private schools. But if you're not catching on that the teams outside of LSU in the recruiting rankings are either private or public ivy institutions, then I don't know what to tell you. It just seems clear going forward that if top recruits are going to turn down all of that money, they want an excellent education.

I would think Skip Bertman of all people would be the first to tell you that college baseball has changed dramatically since he was coaching.


There's a big difference between being a national title contender every season and expecting a national championship every season. It's not like I'm elated LSU went 1-2 in Omaha this year, but that doesn't mean I think Maineri is an idiot that needs to be put on the hot seat after what we accomplished.

You guys can carry on with your bitching and bickering while the fanbases of every other school laughs at your unrealistic, stupid expectations. I'll support the team and hope for the best, but I'm not going to sit around with some fairy tale dream that LSU will fire the winningest baseball coach the last 4 seasons because he can't emulate one of the best dynasty runs in NCAA history.

He is a jackass... What of it?

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And okay, yeah, sure. Maineri is an awful recruiter. Got it.

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He gave most of the responsibilities to Javy/Canni and sometimes Dunn. He's involved, sure. But he's not the one who puts in most of the work.

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So Jim Morris isn't a great coach by your standards. got it.

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I didn't say that. Most great coaches are jackasses actually.

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I would pay for you to tell Skip Bertman that to his face, because he'd laugh you out the building for such a stupid remark

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Skip was a jackass too, fwiw. And he's probably agree about jim.

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I'm sure he puts in the typical amount the rest of these head coaches put in

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No you're not. You're 23 with no real knowledge of what goes on it seems.

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You have no concrete evidence of how much he puts into it compared to his peers anyways.

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Compared to his peers? All I did was give you his involvement. I didn't bring up others. You did.

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To give him zero credit for our recruiting

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I said he was involved, of course.

You sure do like to exaggerate and put words in my mouth to make points.

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Well Jim Morris has 2 titles in 22 seasons at Miami? What gives?

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skip bertman had a say. He was better.

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You still implied that LSU's recruiting success has very little to do with Maineri.

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I didn't imply anything. I said he's not at the head of it.

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I didn't know you were so in touch with the recruiting involvement of college baseball coaches across the country. My mistake.

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I'm not claiming I do... are you?

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I know good and well there are a handful of coaches that are probably better than maineri, but I'm not delusional to the point I think it's even possible to get rid of Maineri right now. Most level headed people understand you can't simply get rid of a guy with his success. Enjoy your bickering while Maineri is still here the next 4-5 seasons. It won't do anything.

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I never said he will be fired right now or in the near future. Why does that mean I have to agree with him or think he's not responsible for our postseason failures?