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re: LSU softball batting anaylsis by player
Posted on 3/2/17 at 1:56 pm to Bhs83
Posted on 3/2/17 at 1:56 pm to Bhs83
Florida and Auburn look extremely rough this year at the plate too. I think the SEC is pretty wide open this year. I really have no clue who will win. Florida, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, and Alabama, its anyones to take
2
Posted on 3/2/17 at 1:58 pm to Tigerbait357
i agree. Auburn has three right handers...they lost their lefty last year. Florida has the best pitching staff probably in the country. Their hitting is patchy, though. I just hope someone from the SEC wins it all. I dont want Oklahoma, Michigan or UCLA to win it again.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 1:59 pm to Tigerbait357
Personally, keep pushing thornhill some more, she looks more confident at the plate this year. She has looked solid early on. Yes she isn't the most talented player but she has looked better at the plate compared to others.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 2:02 pm to Tigerbait357
she has a good arm.
one thing i wanted to add..someone said Andrews doesnt have that good an arm, in warms up against USM she seemed to throw very well. Nicky was the one that scared me.
For the life of me i dont understand sending someone out to the plate to bat that has horrible mechanics, stance, swing..not meaning anyone in particular, but is somebody is batting .100, for crying out loud, reach in a do something about it.
Madi Gibson from Auburn had a horrible stance last year and she hit 260 or something. This year she comes back and the coach had her re-do her stance and swing, she is getting there with the average, but she is hitting the ball much, much harder now. Vastly improved. that is because the coach stepped in and said you gonna do something different or you will sit the bench.
one thing i wanted to add..someone said Andrews doesnt have that good an arm, in warms up against USM she seemed to throw very well. Nicky was the one that scared me.
For the life of me i dont understand sending someone out to the plate to bat that has horrible mechanics, stance, swing..not meaning anyone in particular, but is somebody is batting .100, for crying out loud, reach in a do something about it.
Madi Gibson from Auburn had a horrible stance last year and she hit 260 or something. This year she comes back and the coach had her re-do her stance and swing, she is getting there with the average, but she is hitting the ball much, much harder now. Vastly improved. that is because the coach stepped in and said you gonna do something different or you will sit the bench.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 4:57 pm to Tigerbait357
If that is not a misprint in her bio and Dawson is indeed 20 years old, I can see why she was so dominant in high school. Yes, she is extremely talented, but she was also playing against many players 4 and 5 years younger. Get to big time college softball and yes, it's a different game. Torina knows what she is doing, personnel-wise.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 5:05 pm to timlan2057
If it were up to posters on this board, Torina would have been fired and Jaquish would be kicked off the team
Posted on 3/2/17 at 7:42 pm to Bayou Bum
Good post Bayou Bum. We actually agree on 95% of it.
Forget Dawson, this was the basis of the debate. Don't pick and choose analogies made to rebut certain points (more on that later). The question is, why not give a young, high ceiling player, like Sanchez or Cunningham if you don't like Dawson's abilites, these reps when the program simply is not getting better at this one position? It's a legitimate critique.
This is just silly. She was a top 5 national middle infielder by Flo Softball, Top 30 overall player and a National Player of the Year and Consensus 1st team All American. She was the NFCA Golden Shoe Award Winner as the nation's top base stealer in the USA for all high school's. There is only one of these in all of high school softball per year.
Break her down all you want, maybe she will be a bust but to say she was not an elite pre-college player can't be defended.
Anyway, keep up the good debate. I always appreciate anyone's honest perspective.
quote:
2b. I won't be a person that sits here and defends Connie on her game. I like the rest of you have watched for 4 years her not get any better at the plate.
Forget Dawson, this was the basis of the debate. Don't pick and choose analogies made to rebut certain points (more on that later). The question is, why not give a young, high ceiling player, like Sanchez or Cunningham if you don't like Dawson's abilites, these reps when the program simply is not getting better at this one position? It's a legitimate critique.
quote:
I would never EVER put her in the elite players class coming out of high school.
This is just silly. She was a top 5 national middle infielder by Flo Softball, Top 30 overall player and a National Player of the Year and Consensus 1st team All American. She was the NFCA Golden Shoe Award Winner as the nation's top base stealer in the USA for all high school's. There is only one of these in all of high school softball per year.
Break her down all you want, maybe she will be a bust but to say she was not an elite pre-college player can't be defended.
Anyway, keep up the good debate. I always appreciate anyone's honest perspective.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 7:51 pm to LSUAshlyn
I dont think it is uncommon that a coach wants a senior to start over a freshman, and after three years of being on the team, the coach may still start the senior even if the freshman is slightly better. I dont think that is uncommon. I do believe the Quinn has played well enough to keep her position at least from a defensive standpoint, and they may tolerate a .250 batting average out of her, but in the end, in the CWS if LSU gets there, i really believe Beth would throw in a pinch-hitter, maybe Nicky, for Quinn if it came down to it.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 7:58 pm to LSUAshlyn
quote:
he was the NFCA Golden Shoe Award Winner as the nation's top base stealer in the USA for all high school's.
Taylor Lockwood did that and she's 1-5 in SB attempts in her 2+ year college career.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 8:02 pm to Tigerbait357
Dear Bayou Bum and Tiger Bait,
No, just no.
The Doyle analogy and California was based solely on both of yall's arguments that were contradictory.
First off, yes, Cali kids are seen as better players that have typically seen better competition. It is always assumed that a kid that has success in Cali high school or travel ball is more prepared than kids from other states. Do you dispute this?
Secondly, I used the Doyle comparison as a direct rebuttal on both of you saying that one player's high school career or success is irrelevant and it only matters what you do in college. Yet in the next post, you both said that Doyle is receiving at bats because she showed great "potential". Potential being another word for upside, high ceiling and ability to grow into a better player.
History absolutely matters in recruiting and it matters in development. It matters in professional contract negotiations. What you did at the previous level is what gives you the opening to get to the next level. Players that have had great success, like Amanda Doyle, are more likely to have great success as they continue up the ladder. Doyle had 2 hits all fall, 2! How did Beth know to stick with her? Because of her "potential" that you both mentioned and the very fact that she played on a high level travel ball team, high level high school team and always has had success.
Even after this, in the next breath you both say that nothing in the past matters and it is only what you do on the college level. More than once I read "it's not high school" yet it is solely what was relied on in the Doyle case since she was so ineffective in her initial college games. So which is it?
So back to the original question that no one seems to want to give an opinion on (forget Dawson if you can).
If we are using a "servicable" Sr. player that will hopefully not continue to make "countless errors" with a low ceiling that has failed to produce again through almost 1/3 of the year, why do you believe the staff accepts this instead of playing a higher ceiling, younger player with more "potential" that will make us better in the long run? Sanchez, Cunningham, anybody that has the ability to be more productive at this position?
Thanks for all of the wonderful insight. Believe it or not, I enjoy it.
No, just no.
The Doyle analogy and California was based solely on both of yall's arguments that were contradictory.
First off, yes, Cali kids are seen as better players that have typically seen better competition. It is always assumed that a kid that has success in Cali high school or travel ball is more prepared than kids from other states. Do you dispute this?
Secondly, I used the Doyle comparison as a direct rebuttal on both of you saying that one player's high school career or success is irrelevant and it only matters what you do in college. Yet in the next post, you both said that Doyle is receiving at bats because she showed great "potential". Potential being another word for upside, high ceiling and ability to grow into a better player.
History absolutely matters in recruiting and it matters in development. It matters in professional contract negotiations. What you did at the previous level is what gives you the opening to get to the next level. Players that have had great success, like Amanda Doyle, are more likely to have great success as they continue up the ladder. Doyle had 2 hits all fall, 2! How did Beth know to stick with her? Because of her "potential" that you both mentioned and the very fact that she played on a high level travel ball team, high level high school team and always has had success.
Even after this, in the next breath you both say that nothing in the past matters and it is only what you do on the college level. More than once I read "it's not high school" yet it is solely what was relied on in the Doyle case since she was so ineffective in her initial college games. So which is it?
So back to the original question that no one seems to want to give an opinion on (forget Dawson if you can).
If we are using a "servicable" Sr. player that will hopefully not continue to make "countless errors" with a low ceiling that has failed to produce again through almost 1/3 of the year, why do you believe the staff accepts this instead of playing a higher ceiling, younger player with more "potential" that will make us better in the long run? Sanchez, Cunningham, anybody that has the ability to be more productive at this position?
Thanks for all of the wonderful insight. Believe it or not, I enjoy it.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 8:05 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
Taylor Lockwood did that and she's 1-5 in SB attempts in her 2+ year college career.
She sure was. And Dawson is 3-3 in her 10 appearances.
Was Lockwood also a National POY and consensus first team All American and top 5 national infielder?
Apples and oranges.
Saintfan I think you like debating this stuff as much as anybody!
Posted on 3/2/17 at 8:07 pm to LSUAshlyn
quote:
Apples and oranges.
Yeah but it shows that HS accolades don't guarantee immediate success.
quote:
Saintfan I think you like debating this stuff as much as anybody!
I got sucked into the vortex again
Posted on 3/2/17 at 8:10 pm to Bhs83
quote:
but in the end, in the CWS if LSU gets there, i really believe Beth would throw in a pinch-hitter, maybe Nicky, for Quinn if it came down to it.
Well this is the part of the season where you give reps and see what you have. Play with lineup and order see if something works better than the other.
I like Beth and company and I'm glad and think that we are luck to have her. I just wish that she would experiment a little more before settling in and locking it down before the first ball gets rolled out.
Geaux Tigers!
Posted on 3/2/17 at 8:16 pm to saintsfan22
Sucked in again baby! I agree that high school accolades and successes don't guarantee anything. But it is certainly safe to assume from a recruiting perspective that any player that has a high level of success on Level B has a greater propensity to be successful on Level A.
If you can't dominate Level B you will most likely never get a shot at Level A. It is simply a smart predictor used when evaluating players.
Hey I need a kid that is fast and has the ability to stretch hits and steal bases, do I take a kid I watch go 3 for 3 in the local high school round robin or the kid that is a State Champion Sprinter and Golden Shoe award winner?
The round robin kid may turn out to be better but the percentages say probably not.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 8:25 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
I got sucked into the vortex again
Same...
Now I am just gonna
I'll be back tomorrow in the softball thread, should get heated as always, so drink up yall.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 8:27 pm to Le Tenia
quote:
I like Beth and company and I'm glad and think that we are luck to have her. I just wish that she would experiment a little more before settling in and locking it down before the first ball gets rolled out.
I agree here!!
I definitely think we could have gotten a couple of more players some more experience definitely. SEC play starts next week, so this might be the last chance for certain players to make their case.
Posted on 3/2/17 at 10:13 pm to LSUAshlyn
We will have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, she just isn't as good as you think she is. You keep talking all about the awards etc. Holy smoke, do you know how many of these high school all americans go to small schools to play softball. Those awards are to do as much with outrageous high school stats...and a lot to do with their high school coaches nominating them and pushing for them. Also a high school Coach has to belong to certain organization to even put their kids up for consideration...most high school coaches don't waist their time.
You talk about her like she is the second coming...
You did the same thing last year before she even stepped foot on campus. She is just not as good as you think she is and the coaches must see it the same way I do, or she would be out there playing. This is big time college sports...coaches play kids that make their team better, this isn't some local podunk high school program.
I have not found one real recruiting service that has her anywhere near the top of this class.
But let's step back for a minute, let's say you are right and I am wrong about her talent level. How do you know she isn't playing because she is a bad teammate or that she causes too much drama on the team. This is girls softball and there have been many cases of teammates dating and having drama. Do you think any of that could be possible?
Again, nothing against the poor girl. She was built up to be something that I am not sure anyone could have lived up to be. Like the person said earlier....she was playing against girls 4 and 5 years younger than her. That surely wasn't something that prepared her for this.
You seem knowledgeable about the sport. But you seem to have this unbelievable love for this kid and I admire it. But if you truly love this kid that much, maybe you should back off the hype and let her talent speak for itself. I believe you might have over done it already and turned people off to her....because of all the whining about unfair California bias and everything else.
If your a true fan, sit back and enjoy what they are doing. This junior and senior class has been to 2 consecutive world series. 270+ teams shoot for that every year and only 8 make it. They must be doing something right!
You talk about her like she is the second coming...
You did the same thing last year before she even stepped foot on campus. She is just not as good as you think she is and the coaches must see it the same way I do, or she would be out there playing. This is big time college sports...coaches play kids that make their team better, this isn't some local podunk high school program.
I have not found one real recruiting service that has her anywhere near the top of this class.
But let's step back for a minute, let's say you are right and I am wrong about her talent level. How do you know she isn't playing because she is a bad teammate or that she causes too much drama on the team. This is girls softball and there have been many cases of teammates dating and having drama. Do you think any of that could be possible?
Again, nothing against the poor girl. She was built up to be something that I am not sure anyone could have lived up to be. Like the person said earlier....she was playing against girls 4 and 5 years younger than her. That surely wasn't something that prepared her for this.
You seem knowledgeable about the sport. But you seem to have this unbelievable love for this kid and I admire it. But if you truly love this kid that much, maybe you should back off the hype and let her talent speak for itself. I believe you might have over done it already and turned people off to her....because of all the whining about unfair California bias and everything else.
If your a true fan, sit back and enjoy what they are doing. This junior and senior class has been to 2 consecutive world series. 270+ teams shoot for that every year and only 8 make it. They must be doing something right!
This post was edited on 3/2/17 at 10:16 pm
Posted on 3/2/17 at 11:33 pm to Bayou Bum
Bayou why so serious man
How many times have you seen this player play in person to evaluate for yourself. Forget all of the hype, awards or otherwise? I am a softball junkie.
Exactly, Flo Softball is the only "rankings" I know of that doesn't make players pay to go to camps and have to be members to be ranked. It is independent analysis from scouts and a pool of high level travel ball coaches. Speaking of Flo Softball, I am one of about 10 people in the world that paid for the horrendous coverage of the Nutter Classic, haha.
You could be right. From all reports we have a super group of girls at LSU and I am not aware of any that have been in trouble or said to be "cancers". Of course all teams have issues and many times we the public don't know. It is possible.
If anybody can take any of the diatribes from this Rant to turn on a player in any sport then we have some serious issues as fans. The idiots on this board, me included, have no impact on anything done in these programs. If anything I say or another poster says about a player can turn the opinion of that player then the person that turned against the player has some issues.
I have no "insider knowledge" and have no access to special information. I don' know any member of the coaching staff. I call it like I see it based on my own analysis and give my opinion. I have no issue with anyone disagreeing and hope that my points would never be used against any player.
I am a local and watched this kid grow up on the diamond so I am absolutely biased. I have met her parents and they are a really solid family. I am not aware of this particular player ever being an issue on any team. She seems very quiet and reserved from what I know and have seen of her. A very humble, quiet kid from what I am told. Ashlee Ducote, who I respect very much, told me the girl hardly has anything to say ever and is super quiet.
I have watched hundreds of games and thousands of players and can evaluate talent and upside. But I have said at least half a dozen times, FORGET DAWSON, but some like bringing her back up. I have said more than once that I believe she is done for the year and will not play and hope she gets better for 2018. I trust the staff but still question things that seem strange to me.
My question remains and I think you agree with at least part of it. Why are we accepting subpar play at one particular position when we have a multitude of options that will enhance the program not only this year but over the next few years? Le Tenia says the same thing in another post and people agree with it but react to me like I am the anti-Christ. Sanchez played SS and was recruited as a middle infielder. Think offensively with her at 2nd, Doyle at 3rd and another bat at DP. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.
Good night and
How many times have you seen this player play in person to evaluate for yourself. Forget all of the hype, awards or otherwise? I am a softball junkie.
quote:
Those awards are to do as much with outrageous high school stats...and a lot to do with their high school coaches nominating them and pushing for them. Also a high school Coach has to belong to certain organization to even put their kids up for consideration
Exactly, Flo Softball is the only "rankings" I know of that doesn't make players pay to go to camps and have to be members to be ranked. It is independent analysis from scouts and a pool of high level travel ball coaches. Speaking of Flo Softball, I am one of about 10 people in the world that paid for the horrendous coverage of the Nutter Classic, haha.
quote:
But let's step back for a minute, let's say you are right and I am wrong about her talent level. How do you know she isn't playing because she is a bad teammate or that she causes too much drama on the team.
You could be right. From all reports we have a super group of girls at LSU and I am not aware of any that have been in trouble or said to be "cancers". Of course all teams have issues and many times we the public don't know. It is possible.
quote:
I believe you might have over done it already and turned people off to her
If anybody can take any of the diatribes from this Rant to turn on a player in any sport then we have some serious issues as fans. The idiots on this board, me included, have no impact on anything done in these programs. If anything I say or another poster says about a player can turn the opinion of that player then the person that turned against the player has some issues.
I have no "insider knowledge" and have no access to special information. I don' know any member of the coaching staff. I call it like I see it based on my own analysis and give my opinion. I have no issue with anyone disagreeing and hope that my points would never be used against any player.
quote:
But you seem to have this unbelievable love for this kid and I admire it.
I am a local and watched this kid grow up on the diamond so I am absolutely biased. I have met her parents and they are a really solid family. I am not aware of this particular player ever being an issue on any team. She seems very quiet and reserved from what I know and have seen of her. A very humble, quiet kid from what I am told. Ashlee Ducote, who I respect very much, told me the girl hardly has anything to say ever and is super quiet.
I have watched hundreds of games and thousands of players and can evaluate talent and upside. But I have said at least half a dozen times, FORGET DAWSON, but some like bringing her back up. I have said more than once that I believe she is done for the year and will not play and hope she gets better for 2018. I trust the staff but still question things that seem strange to me.
My question remains and I think you agree with at least part of it. Why are we accepting subpar play at one particular position when we have a multitude of options that will enhance the program not only this year but over the next few years? Le Tenia says the same thing in another post and people agree with it but react to me like I am the anti-Christ. Sanchez played SS and was recruited as a middle infielder. Think offensively with her at 2nd, Doyle at 3rd and another bat at DP. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.
Good night and
This post was edited on 3/2/17 at 11:34 pm
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