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Started By
Message
Let's Do A Little Comparing Of Basketball Teams
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:04 am
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:04 am
Since everyone thinks LSU is soooo good, we have soooo much talent, and experience does NOT matter. I've taken the liberty to look at some of the other top programs around the country. FYI-most people will absolutely hate this thread because it doesn't fit the mold of "Jones sucks, Martin and Mickey are awesome." Also, mock draft projections are based off of Chad Ford who has the largest platform and the most resources at his disposal.
Wisconsin: #5 team in CBB. They have 8 players who have played in more than 20 games, and their guard Jackson got hurt and missed around 8 games...so they go 9 deep. Of those 9, 4 are seniors, 1 JR, no freshmen. Also, they have 2 projected mid-1st round draft picks.
Virginia: #2 team in CBB. They have 5 Juniors, 1 Senior, 1 Sophomore, 1 Freshman that account for their productivity. It may not seem like much, but look at the jump TQ has made from one year to the next. Having 6 players either JR or SR is so important. 0 NBA 1st round projections.
Gonzaga: #3 team in CBB. 4 Seniors, 1 RS JR, 2 Juniors, 2 Freshman. Not to mention, one of the Freshman is projected 1st round pick.
Villanova #6 team in CBB. 2 Seniors, 3 Juniors, 2 Sophomores, 1 Freshman. 0 projected 1st rounders. 5 of their top 6 scorers are either Juniors or Seniors.
Utah:#9 team in the country. They are a pretty remarkable team. They have 2 Seniors, 3 Juniors, 2 Sophomores, 4 Freshman. They have 11 players who play 10 or more minutes a game. Also, Their Freshman center and Senior PG are projected 1st round draft picks.
By comparison, LSU plays 0 Seniors, 2 Juniors (neither of which played Division 1 basketball last year), 4 Sophs, 2 freshmen. Also, have 0 projected 1st round picks
Does anyone else see the pattern with these teams? LSU is not UK, not Arizona, not Duke. We should not compare ourselves. However, yes, I think we can become a team like Utah, like Villanova. But that comes with a bit of time. 2 years ago, Utah was near the bottom of the Pac-12. Last year, they made it to the NIT, this year they will probably have a top 3 seed in the tourney. They have maintained a core group of players, and then added a stud Freshman, and now they're a top 10 team. Does that sound familiar? LSU could easily do this next year, but we don't have any straight studs on our team right now. I'm sorry, but a fringe 2nd round NBA player to undrafted is not "elite" like many are calling them. Elite players don't score single digits in critical games like ours do. Many times, those players obviously have talent, but need more time to develop that talent. Playing 30 minutes a game in college in the SEC is better for development than playing sparingly in the D-league, or being the 11th man off the bench in the NBA.
Wisconsin: #5 team in CBB. They have 8 players who have played in more than 20 games, and their guard Jackson got hurt and missed around 8 games...so they go 9 deep. Of those 9, 4 are seniors, 1 JR, no freshmen. Also, they have 2 projected mid-1st round draft picks.
Virginia: #2 team in CBB. They have 5 Juniors, 1 Senior, 1 Sophomore, 1 Freshman that account for their productivity. It may not seem like much, but look at the jump TQ has made from one year to the next. Having 6 players either JR or SR is so important. 0 NBA 1st round projections.
Gonzaga: #3 team in CBB. 4 Seniors, 1 RS JR, 2 Juniors, 2 Freshman. Not to mention, one of the Freshman is projected 1st round pick.
Villanova #6 team in CBB. 2 Seniors, 3 Juniors, 2 Sophomores, 1 Freshman. 0 projected 1st rounders. 5 of their top 6 scorers are either Juniors or Seniors.
Utah:#9 team in the country. They are a pretty remarkable team. They have 2 Seniors, 3 Juniors, 2 Sophomores, 4 Freshman. They have 11 players who play 10 or more minutes a game. Also, Their Freshman center and Senior PG are projected 1st round draft picks.
By comparison, LSU plays 0 Seniors, 2 Juniors (neither of which played Division 1 basketball last year), 4 Sophs, 2 freshmen. Also, have 0 projected 1st round picks
Does anyone else see the pattern with these teams? LSU is not UK, not Arizona, not Duke. We should not compare ourselves. However, yes, I think we can become a team like Utah, like Villanova. But that comes with a bit of time. 2 years ago, Utah was near the bottom of the Pac-12. Last year, they made it to the NIT, this year they will probably have a top 3 seed in the tourney. They have maintained a core group of players, and then added a stud Freshman, and now they're a top 10 team. Does that sound familiar? LSU could easily do this next year, but we don't have any straight studs on our team right now. I'm sorry, but a fringe 2nd round NBA player to undrafted is not "elite" like many are calling them. Elite players don't score single digits in critical games like ours do. Many times, those players obviously have talent, but need more time to develop that talent. Playing 30 minutes a game in college in the SEC is better for development than playing sparingly in the D-league, or being the 11th man off the bench in the NBA.
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Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:07 am to LSUButt
You do realize you've just built a case for Jones to be fired for being a horrible recruiter, talent evaluator, and player-developer.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:08 am to LSUButt
Why are you comparing LSU to top 10 teams?
Why don't you do a "little comparing" of LSU to Mississippi State, Missouri, Auburn, and Texas A&M?
Why don't you do a "little comparing" of LSU to Mississippi State, Missouri, Auburn, and Texas A&M?
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:09 am to LSUButt
Not that I disagree with your point, because I don't necessarily, but is there a reason why you picked those 5 teams? Did you cherry pick teams that fit your personal feeling on how the team should perform?
I think LSU still has a chance to have the season we expected from them. At the end of the day we want to be top 4 SEC, make the NCAA Tournament, and possibly advance a round or two in the tournament.
We are still in position to do that, though we haven't given ourselves much wiggle room, but trying to create talking points that may not exist makes people believe that the real points are as fake as others.
I think LSU still has a chance to have the season we expected from them. At the end of the day we want to be top 4 SEC, make the NCAA Tournament, and possibly advance a round or two in the tournament.
We are still in position to do that, though we haven't given ourselves much wiggle room, but trying to create talking points that may not exist makes people believe that the real points are as fake as others.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:09 am to LSUButt
I like this thread and I approve this message.
LSU is not that talented. Most people know Martin was a HS all american and have determined we should be in the final 4 because of it.
LSU is not that talented. Most people know Martin was a HS all american and have determined we should be in the final 4 because of it.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:12 am to LSUButt
Mike Krzyzewski was 38-47 and 13-29 in conference after his first 3 seasons at Duke. The morons on this board have no idea what it takes to build a program.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:13 am to geauxjo
quote:
You do realize you've just built a case for Jones to be fired for being a horrible recruiter, talent evaluator, and player-developer
Ummm what? The team is a completely new team since Johnny Jones came in. He has had 2 recruiting classes...and that's what our team is made up of. Why don't people realize we have no seniors because of Trent Johnson? Trent signed basically no one, then Jones got hired mid-April with no time to recruit. In 2 years, Jones has brought in every player on our team.
And I'm comparing them because that's the talent people think we have. We don't have that immense talent. We have some inexperienced players that need time to learn and grow. We are better than Mizzou and MSU, we lost to them but everyone knows we are better. Those are frustrating losses, but with youth comes inexperience.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:14 am to pellietigersaint
Final 4? Top 10 comparisons?
Are you guys even reading the same posts I am? People are frustrated simply because cant get in the NCAA tourney at all. I haven't read people thinking we should be final 4 or comparing us with the Dukes of the world.
Are you guys even reading the same posts I am? People are frustrated simply because cant get in the NCAA tourney at all. I haven't read people thinking we should be final 4 or comparing us with the Dukes of the world.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:15 am to geauxjo
quote:
You do realize you've just built a case for Jones to be fired for being a horrible recruiter, talent evaluator, and player-developer.
His 2013 class of Martin, Mickey, TQ, and Hornsby have been stellar. 2012 was not on Jones as he got here too late to have much of an impact. 2014 is too early to call, but Patterson has been a bright spot. Every player that contributes to the team is someone Jones brought in.
The lack of quality players who should be seniors is a big reason why we struggle, but that doesn't fall on Jones.
This post was edited on 2/18/15 at 11:16 am
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:16 am to LSUButt
quote:
We have some inexperienced players that need time to learn and grow
I would love to agree with you, but those inexperienced players can't wait to jump to the NBA and leave LSU in the dust. They won't be here when they have "experience".
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:18 am to camplsu
quote:
Mike Krzyzewski was 38-47 and 13-29 in conference after his first 3 seasons at Duke. The morons on this board have no idea what it takes to build a program.
In this day and age, he would be on the hotseat for that type of record.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:18 am to SouthOfSouth
No, I looked at top 10 teams that aren't national powers like Duke, UK, Zona. People want to know what makes a good team. Well, experience has a lot to do with it. A program like Utah or Nova can be accomplished if our players and fans stop thinking of 2 and dones. I don't have time to go through every single team in the top 25 or on the bubble, but I can. I can also tell you that I will almost without a doubt say LSU is one of the youngest.
Let's also take into consideration we play 2 Juniors. One played JUCO last year, the other did not play at all and before that played at an average mid-major school.
LSU isn't considered one of the youngest schools, but take away Odo who never plays, then take into account that our Juniors didn't play last year and people will be shocked at how young we actually are
Let's also take into consideration we play 2 Juniors. One played JUCO last year, the other did not play at all and before that played at an average mid-major school.
LSU isn't considered one of the youngest schools, but take away Odo who never plays, then take into account that our Juniors didn't play last year and people will be shocked at how young we actually are
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:21 am to Choupique19
quote:
They won't be here when they have "experience".
I 100% agree with you, and I think that's the main problem. It's pretty obvious Martin and Mickey have great upside, but they also have some immense flaws. When your 2 best players are so up and down it's hard to be consistent. And for the most part, Mickey has been consistent, but if he plays to his average last night we win going away. Same can be said for Martin in about 4-5 SEC games.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:21 am to LSUButt
No one is asking us to be Wisconsin or Gonzaga. Just get a 10 seed in the tournament when you have top 3 SEC talent. This is absolutely ridiculous that anyone would think we don't have the talent to do at least that.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:25 am to LSUButt
quote:
nt. We have some inexperienced players that need time to learn and grow. We are better than Mizzou and MSU, we lost to them but everyone knows we are better. Those are frustrating losses, but with youth comes inexperience.
Um....yeah.... You just lost what little credibility you had. I've heard the young and inexperienced argument for the last 10 years. Shouldn't we have been mature and experienced at some point. Nope. The best talent in college hoops never gets mature and experienced because they leave early. I've followed LSU hoops for 36 years. I've seen very little under Jones that leads me to believe it will get better. We've got 2 studs coming in next season who will be one and done. So what are we next season? Young and inexperienced. What will we be the year following? Young and inexperienced. See the pattern?
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:25 am to ALT F4
How much more talent do we actually have? If I was a fan who knew nothing of college basketball and I watched the game last night, I'd say Roberson>Mickey, House>anyone else on the floor. Now, Mickey is better than Roberson, but he let Roberson almost get a double double while he didn't do anything.
And to answer SoS's question from earlier, aTm's top 5 players: 3 Juniors and 2 Seniors. Which is a main reason when there is 8 minutes to go they turn it up a notch and start to dig in. Our freshmen and sophomores don't have that experience yet
And to answer SoS's question from earlier, aTm's top 5 players: 3 Juniors and 2 Seniors. Which is a main reason when there is 8 minutes to go they turn it up a notch and start to dig in. Our freshmen and sophomores don't have that experience yet
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:26 am to LSUButt
LSU talent is at the level of their records. Martin is so timid that he needs to stay in college 2 more years. Mickey is a good shot blocker but he needs to play aggressive offense and carry his team, not there yet.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:29 am to oauron
quote:
Posted by oauron
Stellar? Shouldn't a stellar class be able to sniff the tournament? Instead we're losing to Missouri, Auburn, Miss St and now A&M twice.
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:30 am to geauxjo
quote:
geauxjo
Let me explain something to you as simply as I can...Martin and Mickey are not elite talent. They are good talent that need developing and time in college. Jones cannot control if they want to leave when they are not ready. They are young...they are still in their 2nd year of basketball. There is a REASON they're not projected NBA 1st rounders.
You obviously have not followed LSU basketball very hard, because where we are now compared to Trent Johnson is light years. Not one person played for LSU in the 2012-2013 season. Think about that, let it process...now tell me what that is if it's not a young team
Posted on 2/18/15 at 11:31 am to LSUButt
quote:
There is a REASON they're not projected NBA 1st rounders.
It is definitely not because of youth.
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