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re: Kevin Steele & O making Turnovers a Priority

Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:38 pm to
Posted by BigBrod81
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
18962 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:38 pm to
quote:

I have mixed feeling about that, it can lead to poor tackling. You need turnovers but don't sacrifice leverage and technique. That is how the Saints D was under the bounty hunter.


It doesn't hurt the Seahawks or Raven's defenses one bit. Both play great team defense as well as force turnovers. It comes down to being fundementally sound in terms of alignment & technique, having good team speed & swarming to the ball.

If you have those together than going for the ball isn't an issue. The 2nd & 3rd year the Saints had Gregg Williams, there was severe lack of team speed overall on defense. That was one of the biggest problems along with Williams tendency to blitz wrecklessly at crucial moments in games.
Posted by misey94
Hernando, MS
Member since Jan 2007
23327 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:40 pm to
I would disagree on one point. Yes, turnovers are a product of players playing the right way. However, if you want something to happen in action, it needs to be practiced. A player needs to know what to do when they are put in that situation, and going over those situations in detail help make it work a game speed. Things have to be drilled before they become instinct.
Posted by misey94
Hernando, MS
Member since Jan 2007
23327 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:42 pm to
Here's another point that has held the defense back the last two years. Playing soft zone repeatedly teaches the players a passive, reactive mindset. That is conducive to what Chavis was trying to do, but it's not conducive to creating turnovers and sacks. On the other hand, aggressiveness is the mindset that we need to start turning this trend around. I'm glad to see that our defense of staff is focusing on that.
This post was edited on 8/7/15 at 1:44 pm
Posted by PeaRidgeWatash
Down by the docks of the city
Member since Dec 2004
15210 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:43 pm to
I'm ferociously erect
Posted by BigBrod81
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
18962 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

Chavis won a National Title at UT and was the main reason they won it. In 2011 LSU had one of the best teams of all time and it was again mainly due to Chavis' defense. So say what you want about the guy, but he has proven himself a lot more as a DC than Steele has up until now.


You are also overlooking the talent he was given to work with at both Tennessee & LSU over the years. The reality is he's a good coach but there also serious flaws in his scheme when it comes to his mustang package & off man coverages on 3rd & long/2 minute drill situations.

The cover 2 he likes to run is going the way of the dinosaur on the college level. Just look at the struggles the creator himself Monte Kiffen had with it at USC.
Posted by BigBrod81
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
18962 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

Playing soft zone repeatedly teaches the players a passive, reactive mindset.


Fans keep referring to this coverage as soft zone when Chavis actually uses more off man coverage with the outside corners & zone underneath with linebackers & safeties in certain situations.
Posted by BigBrod81
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
18962 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 2:00 pm to
Dp
This post was edited on 8/7/15 at 2:01 pm
Posted by Palm Beach Tiger
Orlando, Florida
Member since Jan 2007
29854 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 2:04 pm to
quote:


You are also overlooking the talent he was given to work with at both Tennessee & LSU over the years. The reality is he's a good coach but there also serious flaws in his scheme when it comes to his mustang package & off man coverages on 3rd & long/2 minute drill situations.

The cover 2 he likes to run is going the way of the dinosaur on the college level. Just look at the struggles the creator himself Monte Kiffen had with it at USC.


I'm not overlooking anything. I'm saying Chavis has proven a lot more than Steele has as a College level DC up until this point and I don't see how the talent he has had changes that? He has still done a lot more than Steele has as a DC up until now. and that was my point. Hopefully Steele will end up being better.
Posted by TigersOfGeauxld
Just across the water...
Member since Aug 2009
25057 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

Chavis won a National Title at UT and was the main reason they won it. In 2011 LSU had one of the best teams of all time and it was again mainly due to Chavis' defense.


I'm going to say this as nicely as I can...Chavis was a downgrade to Pelini.

Reposting from the SECR:

quote:

2009: 11th nationally in PPG
2010: 11th
2011: 2nd
2012: 10th
2013: 21st
2014: 3rd


quote:

Pelini spent three years with the Tigers, establishing LSU as one of the nation’s top defenses during that time. In each of his three years with the Tigers, Pelini’s defenses ranked No. 3 in the nation in yards allowed. LSU also ranked No. 3 nationally in scoring in 2005 and No. 4 in 2006.


Chavis wasn't as good as Pelini was at DC.

Posted by BigBrod81
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
18962 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

I don't see how the talent he has had changes that?


Oh really? I could have sworn I've seen LSU struggle in several games the last few years with average to below average talent (DJ Welter) as well as the underdevelopment of several front 7 players. Not to mention the mass confusion of the secondary at Georgia in 2013.
Posted by Geauxgurt
Member since Sep 2013
10443 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

Well, I guess Pelini can sit pretty because he has done the same. The reason it happened it 2011 was because of Mingo, Montgomery, Reid, Mathieu, Claiborne, etc. It was the best assembly of talent running the same scheme that was run in 2012, 2013, and 2014. Same at UT. Chavis was a great DC, but so was Pelini who finished higher on average all three years that he coached here. Continuity is what we're aiming for. The push by the players is for this season. The push by the coaches is for the foreseeable future of the program and you've got to get the best out of each and every class to get there.


Some of you just ignore facts right. It was Chavis' use of that talent in 2011 that led directly to most of them departing early.

Defense had a dropoff one year, 2013, which was understandable with the losses to due to underclassmen declaring for the draft. Overall Chavis' defenses from 2009 through 2014 were the strongest part of the team except one year.

Pelini's defenses were great Nebraska and LSU. He took over as head coach and they slipped a little as time went on, because being a head coach wears on a person, which is why people thinking Saban is purely running Bama's defense are sorely mistaken.

In the end, LSU is taking a huge risk with Steele as DC. He has had two stints as a DC. One took one year to be demoted, the other took 3. That doesn't mean he's horrible, but people are severely overrating their expectations because the guy is a very good recruiter. Anyone not being leary of this year's defense being anything above average are setting themselves up for a potentially huge disappointment.

It was an underwhelming hire for a reason, and there is a reason the guy wasn't even offered by anyone else.
Posted by timlan2057
In the Shadow of Tiger Stadium
Member since Sep 2005
16761 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

I have mixed feeling about that, it can lead to poor tackling. You need turnovers but don't sacrifice leverage and technique. That is how the Saints D was under the bounty hunter.


At times, we've had people try to arm tackle and no TO's. So yes, Steele and O may as well teach them how to strip the ball.
Posted by Deuces
The bottom
Member since Nov 2011
12359 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 4:37 pm to
I miss seeing the aggressiveness that defined a true lsu defense! I'm ready to see the d line get after the quarterback, get some sacks, and get the swagger going again. While chavis had a good run here, I think it maybe was time for a change. We now have Coach O, who is not going to accept anything but the best effort from his line and the defense as a whole, and he will also bring a spark to the mentality of the D. I don't want to speak too soon, but I'm very excited to see what's to come this season!
Posted by bencoleman
RIP 7/19
Member since Feb 2009
37887 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 4:45 pm to
I was disappointed with the steel hire. In fact I got banned over it so I have to choose my words carefully. I think LSU will be fine on D. If KS slips coach O is right there.
Posted by Palm Beach Tiger
Orlando, Florida
Member since Jan 2007
29854 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 4:47 pm to
Did i say anything about pellini? No. Chavis obviously has a better dc resume than kevin steele. I Have no idea what you are talking about.
Posted by Palm Beach Tiger
Orlando, Florida
Member since Jan 2007
29854 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 4:50 pm to
Did you see kevin steele's d give up 70 to west virginia in a bowl game and then get fired? Because that is the comparison we are making. Look, its a diff job. Lsu has far more talent and much better asst coaches backing him up. But again kevin steele's coaching ability is in question here. A&m outbid us for chavis We didnt ask him to leave. Lets not kid ourselves.
Posted by PeaRidgeWatash
Down by the docks of the city
Member since Dec 2004
15210 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 4:53 pm to
quote:

Did you see kevin steele's d give up 70 to west virginia in a bowl game and then get fired? Because that is the comparison we are making. Look, its a diff job. Lsu has far more talent and much better asst coaches backing him up. But again kevin steele's coaching ability is in question here. A&m outbid us for chavis We didnt ask him to leave. Lets not kid ourselves.


Negatory senator
Posted by misey94
Hernando, MS
Member since Jan 2007
23327 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 4:55 pm to
quote:

A&m outbid us for chavis We didnt ask him to leave. Lets not kid ourselves


I don't think you can consider what happened to be a bidding contest. It was more like a pissing contest between Chavis and Alleva.
This post was edited on 8/7/15 at 5:33 pm
Posted by Datbayoubengal
Port City
Member since Sep 2009
26614 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 4:56 pm to
quote:

They should be making firing off the ball and Getting penetration the priority. Also getting off blocks. Stripping the ball should be the #4 priority


No. Turnovers gives the ball back to your offense for more opportunities to score. Turnovers take away opponents opportunities to score no matter the situation. Turnovers can be turned into defensive TDs. Turnovers can easily change momentum in a game. Turnovers stop an offense in its tracks whether it's 1st down or 4th down.

It goes hand in hand sometimes too. Get penetration, cause the QB to scurry around and either sack him, or let him make a bad decision that causes a turnover. Same with a runner.

IMO, they are 1a, 1b
Posted by TigersOfGeauxld
Just across the water...
Member since Aug 2009
25057 posts
Posted on 8/7/15 at 5:05 pm to
quote:

I Have no idea what you are talking about.


That's obvious. What should be obvious is that LSU had great defense before Chavis ever stepped foot on campus and we will again.

The 2008 LSU defense was a complete outlier when looking at where LSU defenses have ranked since Miles got the job at LSU in 2005.

LSU will be the resurrection of Kevin Steele as a defensive coordinator. It's why his good friend Chavis urged him to take this job.
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