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Started By
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re: Is Les Miles one of the greatest coaches of all time? ETA: message to come
Posted on 9/17/12 at 8:19 am to Lutcher Lad
Posted on 9/17/12 at 8:19 am to Lutcher Lad
quote:
Lutcher Lad
quote:
Rodeo Clown
Don't quit your day job.
1
Posted on 9/17/12 at 8:23 am to TenTex
quote:With SabanBama out there and all the media adulation they get, flying under the radar is no choice, but can be a good strategy.
Les just likes to fly under the radar when he can.
Posted on 9/17/12 at 8:33 am to omegaman66
quote:You have to carry yourself in a certain way to get a free pass.
Les messes up and it is never forgotten. Saban screws up or craps on the fans or emails his assistants and everyone brushes it under the rug and forgets it.
Posted on 9/17/12 at 8:34 am to Child of the Missip
Miles is probably the greatest LSU coach of all time and if he isn't now, he will be by the time he retires. He has won too much to say otherwise.
How does he compare to other top coaches around the nation? That is a tough one. He did not exactly build the program. Saban (with more help from Dinardo than most realize) did that. But Miles did keep it going and make it better. Saban lost at least 3 games every year but one at LSU; Miles has rattled off a number of two loss or fewer seasons. Miles recruits well, too, and his players are almost always up for the games. But here is the strange rub: Miles has committed more inexplicable coaching blunders than most BAD coaches. In this sea of positives, there is this odd, troubling fact. Fortunately, the good has far outweighed the bad.
How does he compare to other top coaches around the nation? That is a tough one. He did not exactly build the program. Saban (with more help from Dinardo than most realize) did that. But Miles did keep it going and make it better. Saban lost at least 3 games every year but one at LSU; Miles has rattled off a number of two loss or fewer seasons. Miles recruits well, too, and his players are almost always up for the games. But here is the strange rub: Miles has committed more inexplicable coaching blunders than most BAD coaches. In this sea of positives, there is this odd, troubling fact. Fortunately, the good has far outweighed the bad.
Posted on 9/17/12 at 8:49 am to omegaman66
quote:
Exactly, Les Miles is held to a higher standard. Les messes up and it is never forgotten. Saban screws up or craps on the fans or emails his assistants and everyone brushes it under the rug and forgets it
It's more the glaringness of the mess ups. Look Saban’s a prick and everyone accepts he's a prick. But although every coach at some time or another has been outdone and outcoached, Saban really never had that deer in the headlights debacle like Miles had....a couple times.
But this is not a Miles vs. Saban deal anyway.
Posted on 9/17/12 at 8:55 am to genuineLSUtiger
quote:
You have got to be kidding...right? Last year's championship game should have given you a clue as to how good a coach Less is
quote:
Don't quit your day job.
He's actually right. This will piss people off, but great coaches are defined by how they perform in great moments. That game was a very bad example of a team's preparation and performance, and that fall on coaching.
Things like that is what weighs on a coaches ranking.
Posted on 9/17/12 at 9:03 am to TheEye
quote:
how they perform in great moments.
How many other great moments has there been that he has performed excellent?
Posted on 9/17/12 at 9:05 am to TheEye
quote:Thousands of Blazers, Warhawks, Utes, and WDEs disagree.
Saban really never had that deer in the headlights debacle like Miles had
Posted on 9/17/12 at 9:09 am to TheEye
The man brought LSU to a national championship and beat the team that snuck in, during regular season, with a one dimensional offense. What could he have done to win the game? Nothing
Posted on 9/17/12 at 9:17 am to Child of the Missip
quote:
and most of all he isn't Nick Saban.
should have stopped before 'and'.
quote:
Mislead, misdirect, misinform. Les Miles has a sleeping Tiger of a team that is tip toeing through opponents under the radar.
eenh....Hans, no bullets.
quote:
Hell, we even have Florida and aTm, two teams, who havent seen a well executed ball club play yet, thinking they can pull an upset.
Florida would not be an upset in the "swamp" and if we take tam lightly they could very well beat us.
quote:
Yeah he lost the championship but to think he didnt make adjustments at half because he was stubborn or to envious of a run first quarterback is preposterous. At OSU he was as pass happy as can be. The man knew he was one deminsional and new he was playing the only possible team who could successfully stop the one demension.
well said.
quote:
Watching him very slowly and methodically unfold this team's true potential over the next 5 weeks and then on the seventh week(6th home game) unleash it's true potential
pretty sure we saw most of our potential against Washington. that doesn't mean we can't improve...in fact, every unit (except maybe punt and kick) must improve if we are going to even get a sniff of crystal.
Posted on 9/17/12 at 10:05 am to byubengalboy
I wrote this last night in a dreary haze in between breaks from studying, typos and poor sentence structure is ramped through out the paragraphs.
I can see how someone could think that, I just beg the differ. Can't argue with your logic however.
quote:
pretty sure we saw most of our potential against Washington. that doesn't mean we can't improve...in fact, every unit (except maybe punt and kick) must improve if we are going to even get a sniff of crystal.
I can see how someone could think that, I just beg the differ. Can't argue with your logic however.
Posted on 9/17/12 at 10:48 am to Lion Monticello
quote:
How many other great moments has there been that he has performed excellent?
very many, but you missed the point.
When you rank the top 20 coaches in the history of the NCAA, you'll come across thousands upon thousands of great moments. So how to you decipher through all that to rank them. I'm sorry but Mile's had a few WTF moments that will weight him down
.
Posted on 9/17/12 at 10:57 am to Mayhawman
quote:
Thousands of Blazers, Warhawks, Utes, and WDEs disagree.
Those are not deer in the headlight games
Over the course of a coaches career, he will lose the "no way we lose this" game. Happens to every great coach. They overlooked and team, came out flat and were not ready to play.
I'm referring to more of the: trying to make us believe that what he was doing as time ran out at Ole Miss was not the spike the ball gesture, and asking the security guard what happened and how much time did we have on the clock? Variety.
Posted on 9/17/12 at 10:59 am to Child of the Missip
quote:
The man brought LSU to a national championship and beat the team that snuck in, during regular season, with a one dimensional offense. What could he have done to win the game? Nothing
Note sure what he could have done to win, but I can name a handful of things have tried.
Posted on 9/20/12 at 7:26 am to TheEye
quote:You are worried about fan perception on one play.
I'm referring to more of the: trying to make us believe that what he was doing as time ran out at Ole Miss was not the spike the ball gesture, and asking the security guard what happened and how much time did we have on the clock? Variety.
quote:I say these are the more serious shortcomings than a single gaff, on a single play, in a game you really should've been losing by a TD or more.
Over the course of a coaches career, he will lose the "no way we lose this" game. Happens to every great coach.
You think
quote:all can lose a few WTF games and still be "a great coach",
the top 20 coaches in the history of the NCAA
but
quote:
but Mile's had a few WTF moments that will weight him down
and
quote:again you fault him for shortcomings you give a free pass to the rest of the coaching club.
Note sure what he could have done to win, but I can name a handful of things have tried.
Posted on 9/20/12 at 8:17 am to Child of the Missip
quote:
He brought us through the hardest schedule LSU has seen in the last seven years and he did it with a one demensional offense.
This is ignored by most....but this could have been the best coaching he's done since being at LSU.
If we had somehow beaten bama two times in the same season and gone undefeated......Miles would easily gotten the props he deserves.
He didn't beat them twice (I suggest no team could have done that) so he was ridiculed by some.
LSU is in great hands.
We, LSU, are the ONLY team to compete yr after yr against bama....truely the envy of other SEC schools.
This post was edited on 9/20/12 at 8:21 am
Posted on 9/20/12 at 8:36 am to munchman
"He didn't beat them twice (I suggest no team could have done that) so he was ridiculed by some."
Whoa, now. This thread is about whether Miles qualifies (or will in the future qualify) as one of the greatest coaches of all time, not just whether "LSU is in great hands." What Miles was ridiculed for was how unprepared the team was in the NC game and how he made no adjustments to turn things around in the game. I think the vast majority of Tiger fans appreciate that Miles has done a great job and that he he has accomplished a TON at LSU. Strangely, though, he has also committed some of the most glaring coaching missteps that have ever been witnessed. You can appreciate Miles' tremendous success while also understanding that you have to take those mistakes into account when comparing Miles to all-time greats.
Whoa, now. This thread is about whether Miles qualifies (or will in the future qualify) as one of the greatest coaches of all time, not just whether "LSU is in great hands." What Miles was ridiculed for was how unprepared the team was in the NC game and how he made no adjustments to turn things around in the game. I think the vast majority of Tiger fans appreciate that Miles has done a great job and that he he has accomplished a TON at LSU. Strangely, though, he has also committed some of the most glaring coaching missteps that have ever been witnessed. You can appreciate Miles' tremendous success while also understanding that you have to take those mistakes into account when comparing Miles to all-time greats.
Posted on 9/20/12 at 8:36 am to Child of the Missip
he hasn't coached long enough to be considered one of the all time greatest. if his success continues like the past few years, i think he'll be there. i think saban is about 8-10 yrs older. saban is 62. so miles will probably coach longer altho saban may never quit and miles might retire early.
Posted on 9/20/12 at 8:58 am to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:
how he made no adjustments to turn things around in the game
Unfortunately, I think what most people mean by this statement is a change in QBs. I doubt very much if amost of us have analyzed the film to see if we changed blocking schemes, etc, which in the case of the NCG would likely have been more important. We lost that game, badly, in the trenches. I mean, the worst arse-beating I've ever seen us take in the trenches.
Is changing QBs when thing are not going well in the trenches the be-all and end-all of good coaching vs bad? Really?
And look, I'm not a JJ fan. I think he was the worst QB in the SEC. I also think he MAY have been the best choice to beat Bama last year, and I think that is why Miles stuck with him so damn much at the end of the year--- trying to get him as good as possible before the NCG.
Bama last year ate pocket passers alive.
Now, we lost the game-- badly. But it is not all clear that a QB change would have done a thing in the world to help, and may have made it worse. Who knows?
Posted on 9/20/12 at 8:59 am to N.O. via West-Cal
I think his point was that losing the game makes it much tougher to give him credit as one of the greatest, while it adds to Saban's credit as one of the greatest. From my perspective, the two best teams in the country, coached by two of the best coaches in the history of the sport, played a game that by the standard of the day, shouldn't have been played. LSU was a one trick pony offensiveley, playing the best defense in the country, and got beat on round #2. Les gets shite for not trying a bunch of desperation moves in the second half, and that is viewed as being unprepared or quitting. Personally, I would have at least given JL a shot. But, considering that LSU had been so explosive all year sticking to the game plan until things broke open, even in adverse games like UGA and ARKY, it makes total sense that Les didn't scrap the entire seasons strategy and preparation at half time. We might have won, or the final might have been 49-0.
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