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justustm2
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2005
2897 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
Yeah, right after he had to miraculously escape the grasp of an unblocked lineman, which he had to do too often. People forget that part. He was constantly under duress as a Fiurnette against Bama.


nelaZZ
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2017
443 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

Remember Jeff Driskil from Florida?

He did this at La. Tech for frick sakes


SEC Grapevine
LSU Fan
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
163 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
Tigers flashed same one-dimensional offense of last two seasons: Inflamed tiger Nation on Verge of Overthrowing Football Heirarchy





This was easily the most boring game of the opening weekend...boring and excruciatingly maddening: SOS & Miles takes the gutless way out blaming Harris only to be fired 2 games later.

Running only 50 plays, lowest in the FBS, LSU looked good for 67 seconds on 2 turnovers and an up-Tempo 2 play drive that took 18 seconds, or 6 PPM after going at a snail's pace of 2 PPM.

TEMPO, TEMPO Les never liked TEMPO. It is what it takes to win and cover up a weak & injured run-blocking O-Line that has not been able to Pass Protect in over 5 years.

Mett got sacked 57 times in 2 yrs and it got worse in the NFL, 31 times in 14 games. So having a mobile DTQB and Tempo are essential.

Guice only had 2 carries and fumbled early giving WIS a 3 point lead. Why he did not play more with LF injured is probably related to another Heisman Campaign at everyone else's expense.



Quarterback Brandon Harris hit wide-open tight end DeSean Smith for 19 yards and then found Travin Dural and Malachi Dupre to move the Tigers near midfield. Running back Leonard Fournette busted through the center of the line for a 15-yard gain to the Wisconsin 30-yard line with a minute left.

“Basically,” said Neal, the Tigers’ senior defensive end, “we were thinking we were going to win at the end down there.”

What happened next? A sequence that summed up LSU’s 16-14, season-opening loss to Wisconsin on Saturday afternoon: a bumbling offense lost without production from its Heisman Trophy hopeful.

Will Clapp, a second-year starting lineman, jumped early for a false-start penalty. A Badgers blitzer then ran untouched between left tackle K.J. Malone and Clapp. Quarterback Brandon Harris, dodging that would-be sack, chucked a poor pass into the hands of a defender for a game-sealing interception.

All the while, Fournette was on the sideline resting an ankle he re-injured on that 15-yard carry.


This post was edited on 8/12 at 9:38 pm


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62
SEC Grapevine
LSU Fan
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
163 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

You didn't watch Harris in 2016 apparently


Miles only let Harris attempt 277 passes (118th) all season vs 438 for Flynn/Perrilloux in his only Championship season. Miles got more and more conservative while the FBS top 25 Teams are averaging 4000-5000 yds in 500-600 attempts, like the NFL.

Mett's 3000 yds pales in comparison. Great for an LSU QB is Mediocre. Plus without being mobile his season ending injury spelled trouble in the Not-For-Long-League.

I assume you meant watch Harris in 2015 vs ALA when he accounted for over 80% of LSU's total Offense: 128 Passing, 20 rushing for 4 YPC. While Leonard Heisman was 31 yds on 19 carries or 1.6 YPC with 18 of that in garbage time. Harris Passing Yds was more than the 2016 Total Offense vs ALA.

[/img]
Notice FS Cyrus Jones crashing down on Harris. He was hit eight times, hurried on 50% of his dropbacks, and suffered a hernia, shoulder injury, and a knee injury that affected him the rest of the season. The following game he was hit 5 more times and his accuracy dropped dramatically. He faced over twice as many 3rd and 7+ as Etling and converted 34% to Etling's 17%. More Mobile and a better arm.



Of all the QBs to play for LSU only Harris makes this escape and throw - thanks O-Line!!! Facing a third-and-9, Harris showed both his elusiveness and arm strength on one play. Defensive tackle Caleb Brantley flushed Harris from the pocket, and sophomore Jordan Sherit grabbed the quarterback’s jersey as he escaped. But Harris wriggled free of Sherit’s grasp and chucked the ball downfield to — guess who? — Dupre.

Founette's 2015 Heisman Campaign was selfish stat-padding puffery by Miles/Cam/LF that went up in smoke when he played ALA, ARK, OM. It prevented the team from developing a Passing Game and keeping WRs like Tyron Johnson, Trey Quinn, Diarse or playing DJ Chark who lit it up in Spring and Fall practice. It also limited Guice and was very poor utilization of Fournette.

After the first 6 games, LSU had attempted only 16 Passes per game, dead last in the FBS.

LF went in for every redzone TD to puff those numbers up.

Unfortunately LSU was leading the SEC in Penalties all year which was so severe it costs LF and Harris in stats.

Malachi Dupre raised the low passing attempts point pretty effectively.

“If they were recruiting me and they told me they were going to give the ball to Leonard, or the running backs 75 percent of the time, it might be hard to get a recruit at the receiver position or quarterback position. But at the end of the day, we’re here … we’ve got to live with it.”

Now, for the sake of accuracy I have to point out that the Tigers aren’t handing the ball to Fournete 75% of the time. They are running it 75% of the time though, and passing only 25% of the time.

With 61 pass attempts through 4 games the Tigers rank 125th of 128 FBS teams for total attempts. Many teams ahead of them have played 5 games. If you take LSU’s 15 attempts per game average and figure they would be at 76 attempts through 5 they would move all the way up to 124th place.

Only two college football teams are passing the ball less than LSU right now.



The nation’s leading rusher didn’t get further than one yard on 13 of his 19 carries Saturday. After the game was out-of-reach he got one 18 yd carry, otherwise he would have had less than 1 YPC!!

Miles' Heisman campaign and the slow, predictable I formation contributed to the loss at WISC and the 3 losses to ALA,ARK,OM. It hurt the Passing Game, the DTQBs, drove away recruits, and 5 WRs. Plus LF was playing w/a pre-season high ankle sprain and was not 100%, had 11 carries for 35 yds lst Half, 0 TDs in the game, and aggravated that injury. He is not the agile, tackle breaking 2015 ESPN Sports Science "Adrian Peterson Phenom" LINK who makes cuts in 0.2 seconds, faster than the blink of an eye, with 3Gs of force on his ankles, running 21 mph. He was heavier, slower, and after 5 games had 2 TDs vs 11, 350 yds vs the 1,022 he had after 5 games last year when he was the fastest player to reach 1,000 yds: more than the total for 70 FBS teams. The SCAR game last yr and the Missouri games were carbon copies, 624 vs 634 yds offense, 45 vs 42 pts. "Fournette takes advantage of shotgun" reaffirmed that RBs run far better out of the multi-option shotgun than the predictable I formation which robs DTQBs of Tempo, RPOs, and accuracy. Guice also had 161 yds in the SCAR game, so rotating 2 backs kept them fresh. LF turns 22 in Jan. RBs have the shortest NFL career, 2.5 yrs avg. He will be 26, past his prime, if he reaches free agency.



This doesn't look a risk free guarantee...and it isn't EASY.
This post was edited on 8/12 at 10:28 pm


roygu
Member since Jan 2004
11334 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

So all those QBs who lit it up in college and then busted out in the pros - that was because their pro coaches sucked???



All those HS All Americans that played and sucked for Dinardo yet made All SEC for Saban and Fisher, suddenly discovered their talent.
Wasn't the QB, that played so well for Canada last season, a bust at Tennessee


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crescentcity
Member since Feb 2015
667 posts
 Online 

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC

Holy shit, SEC Grapevine.

Excellent, excellent post.

Lot of cool things about MIles. Visiting kids with cancer. Passion for the game. But he ruined some very good talent here. Brandon Harris was one of them. He was also so defensive about stupidity that he would sometimes lie. Before the start of the 2012 season, he told some reporters that he thought about playing Mettenberger in the championship game against Alabama the previous year, but he was injured. When asked, about it, Mett was like WTF?



Powerman
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jan 2004
128408 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:


I will be cheering for him,


but I will also be sick is he lights it up...


So you aren't really cheering for him


crescentcity
Member since Feb 2015
667 posts
 Online 

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

So you aren't really cheering for him



I'm conflicted.

I wish Canada had recruited him.


Mayhawman
LSU Fan
Somewhere in the middle of SEC West
Member since Dec 2009
6428 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

he thought about playing Mettenberger in the championship game against Alabama the previous year, but he was injured.
If he wasn't injured, he would've been behind that OL play.


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40
SEC Grapevine
LSU Fan
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
163 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

As for the ACC, it's pretty top heavy with Clemson and FSU. None of the other teams in that conference are that good and other than Louisville with the above two, all had 4 or more losses last year.


FWIW: Canada was poached from the currently dominant ACC, and Aranda from the Big 10.

How the ACC used Coaches, QBs to Top the SEC in 2016

ACC Coaches Declare ACC best

How the Tar Heels Can help Sustain ACC Dominace

At the moment, the SEC is Alabama and Everyone Else. This season was the first in SEC history in which only one team (Alabama) finished with fewer than four losses.

For the first time since 2002, only one SEC team finished in the final top 10 of the AP Top 25. The SEC had five final top-10 teams combined from 2014-16, down from 13 in the previous three seasons.

The ACC had a 10-4 record for the year vs. the SEC -- topped by Clemson over Alabama in the College Football Playoff National Championship -- and won those games by an average of 11.3 points.

While the SEC continues to go through a coaching transition -- this past season was the least-experienced group of SEC head coaches in 52 years -- the ACC closed the gap by gaining an edge at quarterback. Elite quarterbacks from the ACC/SEC footprint started swinging to the ACC: Winston, Watson, Jackson, Francois.

Three teams out of 14 in the ACC had overall losing records. In the SEC, that number was five. The ACC champions, Clemson, had a conference loss and four other games against conference foes that were decided by one possession. That’s half their games against ACC opponents that were close. The SEC champions, Alabama, never lost in conference and had just one game against a conference opponent that was decided by fewer than 10 points. One of these conferences is deeper than the other. If you need further convincing, the SEC posted a mediocre 6-6 bowl game record, while the ACC went 8-3.

quote:

Maybe Fedora can correct some of the accuracy issues and maybe scheme will help mitigate some of Harris' pocket presence issues. I don't know.




Harris did not have ANY problem lighting it up as a Freshman. He was the highest rated QB with the highest scoring rate and efficiency in the Nation. However, that was playing Spread, Tempo, Option and that was a HUGE threat to Personal/Professional Goals vs Team Goals of Hilliard, TM18, Fournette, FBs, and La'El Collins who had stayed to get his draft stock up. After the NMST game they expressed their concern. AUB reverted to form and was a disaster of slow and predictable vs the most explosive Offense in the SEC: 27-0 after one Qtr. We finished that year unranked.

Pocket Presence: LSU is a run-blocking O-Line vs a loaded box and they cannot Pass Block for shite. Mett got sacked 57 times in 2 yrs and it got worse in the NFL, 31 times in 14 games. So having a mobile DTQB and Tempo are essential.

3rd & long 7+ yds: Harris is clearly the better QB in crunch time with more mobility and a stronger arm. Remember also that Etling played in O QB-friendly Offense.

Harris: 21/67=31%
Etling: 8/48=16%

Harris, his HS Coach, his Trainer, and Father (Diesel a former football player) chose Fedora over Herman because of Trubisky and Fedora having 5 yrs of QBs throwing 3000-3800 yds.

Playing with Tempo, 2-3x as many Pass Attempts, Spread, Shotgun, RPO all play into what Harris does best and does not let a defense adjust.


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BayouChamp
LSU Fan
Angola
Member since Jan 2008
37 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
So my question is: Why did coach O decide that Harris wouldn't work in the offense?

Wasn't Canada already here? If this offense was perfect for Harris with a QB Guru, why did he leave?

Has the situation become that toxic? Open spring competition up. See who wins. If Harris is beat out, he transfers anyway. I'm no insider but it doesn't add up unless there were personality conflicts there.


SEC Grapevine
LSU Fan
SEC
Member since Sep 2014
163 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/13 at 9:30 am


Rickdaddy4188
LSU Fan
Murfreesboro,TN
Member since Aug 2011
29281 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

A perfect example is the WISC game where it was the SOS and Miles got fired for it


yeah it was the coaches out there throwing balls up for grabs when we are already in th position.

quote:

when you were a record setting FR phenom 

when the hell was Brandon Harris a freshman phenom? he there 45 passes as a freshman


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Rickdaddy4188
LSU Fan
Murfreesboro,TN
Member since Aug 2011
29281 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

FWIW: Canada was poached from the currently dominant ACC, and Aranda from the Big 10. 

How the ACC used Coaches, QBs to Top the SEC in 2016

ACC Coaches Declare ACC best 

How the Tar Heels Can help Sustain ACC Dominace 

At the moment, the SEC is Alabama and Everyone Else. This season was the first in SEC history in which only one team (Alabama) finished with fewer than four losses. 

For the first time since 2002, only one SEC team finished in the final top 10 of the AP Top 25. The SEC had five final top-10 teams combined from 2014-16, down from 13 in the previous three seasons. 

The ACC had a 10-4 record for the year vs. the SEC -- topped by Clemson over Alabama in the College Football Playoff National Championship -- and won those games by an average of 11.3 points. 

While the SEC continues to go through a coaching transition -- this past season was the least-experienced group of SEC head coaches in 52 years -- the ACC closed the gap by gaining an edge at quarterback. Elite quarterbacks from the ACC/SEC footprint started swinging to the ACC: Winston, Watson, Jackson, Francois. 

Three teams out of 14 in the ACC had overall losing records. In the SEC, that number was five. The ACC champions, Clemson, had a conference loss and four other games against conference foes that were decided by one possession. That’s half their games against ACC opponents that were close. The SEC champions, Alabama, never lost in conference and had just one game against a conference opponent that was decided by fewer than 10 points. One of these conferences is deeper than the other. If you need further convincing, the SEC posted a mediocre 6-6 bowl game record, while the ACC went 8-3. 

quote:
Maybe Fedora can correct some of the accuracy issues and maybe scheme will help mitigate some of Harris' pocket presence issues. I don't know.





Harris did not have ANY problem lighting it up as a Freshman. He was the highest rated QB with the highest scoring rate and efficiency in the Nation. However, that was playing Spread, Tempo, Option and that was a HUGE threat to Personal/Professional Goals vs Team Goals of Hilliard, TM18, Fournette, FBs, and La'El Collins who had stayed to get his draft stock up. After the NMST game they expressed their concern. AUB reverted to form and was a disaster of slow and predictable vs the most explosive Offense in the SEC: 27-0 after one Qtr. We finished that year unranked. 

Pocket Presence: LSU is a run-blocking O-Line vs a loaded box and they cannot Pass Block for shite. Mett got sacked 57 times in 2 yrs and it got worse in the NFL, 31 times in 14 games. So having a mobile DTQB and Tempo are essential. 

3rd & long 7+ yds: Harris is clearly the better QB in crunch time with more mobility and a stronger arm. Remember also that Etling played in O QB-friendly Offense. 

Harris: 21/67=31% 
Etling: 8/48=16% 

Harris, his HS Coach, his Trainer, and Father (Diesel a former football player) chose Fedora over Herman because of Trubisky and Fedora having 5 yrs of QBs throwing 3000-3800 yds. 

Playing with Tempo, 2-3x as many Pass Attempts, Spread, Shotgun, RPO all play into what Harris does best and does not let a defense adjust. 





great post


Coeur du Tigre
LSU Fan
Waiting for Geauxdeaux.
Member since Nov 2008
623 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

SEC Grapevine

Post more.


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Stevo
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2004
7082 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

But he ruined some very good talent here. Brandon Harris was one of them.


one of the dumbest, most pervasive themes on this board. Brandon got PLENTY of reps and coaching. At some point, it's up to the player to get it done on field. Wish Brandon the best, but pocket poise was his issue at LSU. Has nothing to do with Miles "ruining" him. Looks like Miles "ruined" lots of players now playing in the NFL.


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Tigerik
LSU Fan
Franklin, TN
Member since Mar 2007
1141 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
He will do well at UNC & I'll be happy for him, but he would have had a good chance to compete in Canada's new offense.

He unfortunately didn't have the "chest" to stay after he threw away our game at Wisconsin. FWIW I blame Coach Miles for not running the ball and kicking the winning field goal with that field position. It cost both of them their positions.


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tirebiter
LSU Fan
ATL
Member since Oct 2006
5716 posts
 Online 

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:

Harris did not have ANY problem lighting it up as a Freshman. He was the highest rated QB with the highest scoring rate and efficiency in the Nation. However, that was playing Spread, Tempo, Option and that was a HUGE threat to Personal/Professional Goals vs Team Goals of Hilliard, TM18, Fournette, FBs, and La'El Collins who had stayed to get his draft stock up. After the NMST game they expressed their concern. AUB reverted to form and was a disaster of slow and predictable vs the most explosive Offense in the SEC: 27-0 after one Qtr. We finished that year unranked.


How many games did Harris start as a freshman?? Oh, there was a behind the scenes uprising to restore the heavy run game by Jrs and Srs?? C'mon, man, those guys wanted to win, not continue the offensive futility of heavy run against good to upper tier defenses. That is just silly. I've got nothing against Harris yet if he couldn't supplant Etling then Brennan would likely have beaten Harris out next season, too.


bmy
East Carolina Fan
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
34702 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
see my signature if you have any doubts about Les getting canned


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LSU82BILL
LSU Fan
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Member since Sep 2006
5420 posts

re: Harris starting doing well, starting at UNC
quote:


Take off your SEC goggles. I still feel the SEC is the best, but the ACC is no slouch. Talent? They only have the national champions and the reigning Heisman winner.


And how did that Heisman winner look in his bowl game against a quality SEC defense compared to what he did against arguably the 3 best defenses in the ACC - Boston College, Clemson and FSU?
This post was edited on 8/13 at 5:42 pm


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