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Posted on 9/23/12 at 4:18 pm to DrEdgeLSU
"There was a penalty on the play, and we needed to actually wait to see if we were going to have 3rd and 14 or 4th and 3. How pissy would people be had we put our FG team out there, they take the penalty, and then we get a delay of game penalty b/c our offense isn't ready for 3rd down?"
The clock can't start until a decision is made on the penalty so either the clock started before it was supposed to or Miles couldn't figure out how to get the FG team on the field in 25 seconds
The clock can't start until a decision is made on the penalty so either the clock started before it was supposed to or Miles couldn't figure out how to get the FG team on the field in 25 seconds
Posted on 9/23/12 at 4:20 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
with his microphone on and presumably in full sight of Les Miles
This is the part of this whole thing that you are leaping to a lot of conclusions. The ref makes the announcements towards the home press box, not the visiting coach, and the mic being on does not mean LM could hear it.
Missing the FG was not due to some coaching mistake, guys, no matter how hard some of you whiny babies want it to be so.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 4:38 pm to TigerJeff
Why didn't we take the damn delay of game penalty? He can kick 50 yarders, would those 5 yards have seriously mattered?
Posted on 9/23/12 at 5:15 pm to lsutigertalk
I think it could have mattered since he should have made the kick anyways.
I also have the opinions that the clock management issue is exaggerated and it might only be slightly more prevalent if not at all.
I also have the opinions that the clock management issue is exaggerated and it might only be slightly more prevalent if not at all.
This post was edited on 9/23/12 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 9/23/12 at 5:24 pm to DrEdgeLSU
i think we shouldve just taken the delay and lined up ready to kick. there was no need to rush. alleman woulda hit it from 5 yds further with ease. why rush to avoid the delay if it doesnt push him to edge of range. i get rushing for that if the 5 matters, but a set alleman 5 yds deeper hits that.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 5:27 pm to jeffturnright
I think if Alleman felt rushed, nobody would have been upset if he took the penalty. But the coaches apparently didn't see the need to just concede it since that was as textbook as you can get on what the kicking team practices.
Hindsight being 20/20, taking the delay may have worked out better, but we can't know for sure.
Hindsight being 20/20, taking the delay may have worked out better, but we can't know for sure.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 6:19 pm to DrEdgeLSU
quote:quote:
with his microphone on and presumably in full sight of Les Miles
This is the part of this whole thing that you are leaping to a lot of conclusions. The ref makes the announcements towards the home press box, not the visiting coach, and the mic being on does not mean LM could hear it.
Missing the FG was not due to some coaching mistake, guys, no matter how hard some of you whiny babies want it to be so.
By his mic being on you can here part of the public address system even though the tv broadcast mutes that down. Even then, the waving of the hands showing that the penalty is declined and how he holds up no fingers for 4th down are pretty obvious. Honestly, it didn't look like he was paying attention to that. It looked like he was in shock when he learned it was 4th down. Not really sure what else he would be doing at that time.
He may have also thought he had an extra timeout. Still can't figure out why he blew it on 2nd down when he had an obvious possible field goal attempt coming up.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 6:23 pm to GRTiger
quote:
I'm not defending anything, just recalling what I saw from TV. The ref had his back to the LSU bench. Watch it again. Les asked someone if it was 3rd or 4th down (i.e. was the penalty declined or accepted), he got told and called for the fg team. He had his finger in his open ear, because he was talking to his coaches in the both and the crowd was going nuts.
The fg was rushed, but Alleman went through his full presnap routine and was set when the ball was snapped with 2 seconds remaining on the game clock. He should have made it. I will say Les might not have been aware that the playclock starts at 25 after a penalty, which he should and is a problem if true.
We can definitely agree that something was screwed up there. I will try to watch the replay if I can find it. To me he looked shocked. Then panic mode set in. Luckily it didn't cost us.
When I saw that safety in the first half, I had NO idea how important those two points would be!
Posted on 9/23/12 at 6:28 pm to GRTiger
quote:
I did see Miles confirming the declined penalty and then calling for the field goal once that was determined to be the case.
This is bad on Les' part. No coach in America would accept that penalty and allow LSU to run the clock out and end the game. The clock would start running after the penalty was assesed, and LSU could have taken a knee and the game would be over.
0% chance of Auburn accepting that penalty. Terrible thinking by Les Miles if he thought Auburn might accept the penalty.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 6:38 pm to mmcgrath
espn3.com has the replay. You can skip right to that part of the game. I didn't see shock or confusion, other than him asking if it was accepted or declined. I saw him conferring with booth coaches on what the third down play would be (you could see him say 'we get the down over again' into the headset), headphone on one ear, hand covering the other to shield the crowd noise. He asked the down, was told fourth, then Alleman and crew ran out.
I'm not saying it was done exactly right, but it makes sense there was hesitation due to the penalty. I would say his biggest error was assuming the penalty would be accepted. That's not a clock management issue, which is what this thread is about.
eta:
Something not discussed is how that awesome block was called a hold in the first place, setting this whole thing off. Looked like a picture perfect pancake.
I'm not saying it was done exactly right, but it makes sense there was hesitation due to the penalty. I would say his biggest error was assuming the penalty would be accepted. That's not a clock management issue, which is what this thread is about.
eta:
Something not discussed is how that awesome block was called a hold in the first place, setting this whole thing off. Looked like a picture perfect pancake.
This post was edited on 9/23/12 at 6:41 pm
Posted on 9/23/12 at 6:40 pm to GRTiger
quote:
but it makes sense there was hesitation due to the penalty. I would say his biggest error was assuming the penalty would be accepted. That's not a clock management issue, which is what this thread is about.
See my post above. It's a not understanding the rules issue.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 6:41 pm to DrEdgeLSU
quote:
Missing the FG was not due to some coaching mistake, guys,
it was a mistake, nevertheless, as was calling the timeout on 3rd down. You run a basic play on 3rd, let the play clock run all the way down on 4th down, call the timeout, then give your kicking team the normal amount of time to execute the kick.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 6:43 pm to TigerDom
TigerDom Les Miles and a Clock ... BAD combination
79-18..42-15...48-4..35-1...17-1...5-2...46-6...34-1...21-2...31-14 LINK
what is the percentage of time that you think the bad combination would be of the totallity of playing time?
This post was edited on 9/23/12 at 6:52 pm
Posted on 9/23/12 at 7:19 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
it was a mistake, nevertheless, as was calling the timeout on 3rd down. You run a basic play on 3rd, let the play clock run all the way down on 4th down, call the timeout, then give your kicking team the normal amount of time to execute the kick.
Unfortunately, this never crossed his mind, and there lies the rub!
We don't show any improvement in these situations, and, for me, it calls into question the leadership necessary to make game time adjustments also.
Love what he's done for LSU, like him as a person, but everything between kickoff and final tick is up in the air. Some of this has been beneficial with some fortunate fourth down and special teams calls over the years, but I'm a bit more of the structured type when it comes to my football.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 7:22 pm to TigerJeff
not again
Posted on 9/23/12 at 7:47 pm to TigerJeff
The kicker was ready. The holder made a good hold. The kicker needs to execute. A flat out miss. This is on Alleman.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 7:47 pm to Datbayoubengal
quote:
It was definetly rushed, They just ran up to the line, set, and he tapped the ball. If they had been set already I think he could have made that one easy.
I agree it was rushed and negatively effected the try. It's almost like icing your own kicker. Why would you want your kicking team to be rushed, if not necessary? It could have allowed Auburn to win with a field goal. It was an unforced error.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 7:50 pm to justustm2
quote:
I agree it was rushed and negatively effected the try. It's almost like icing your own kicker. Why would you want your kicking team to be rushed, if not necessary? It could have allowed Auburn to win with a field goal. It was an unforced error.
bullshite. They practice running the field goal team on and executing this kick. They were set, ball snapped, good hold. Alleman needs to make the kick.
Posted on 9/23/12 at 7:53 pm to GeauxGus
I just watched the replay. Waiting on Auburn's decision to accept or decline the penalty did confuse the situation.
But both teams looked surprised by the amount of time left on the play clock. Both teams rushed to the line of scrimmage from the sidelines and the ref was even standing over the ball. The ref did not give the go ahead to snap the ball until just a few seconds left.
I think the play clock was started a little premature and it caught both teams and possibly a couple of the refs by surprise.
But both teams looked surprised by the amount of time left on the play clock. Both teams rushed to the line of scrimmage from the sidelines and the ref was even standing over the ball. The ref did not give the go ahead to snap the ball until just a few seconds left.
I think the play clock was started a little premature and it caught both teams and possibly a couple of the refs by surprise.
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