re: 5* Ed Oliver

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You obviously are a troll. Coaching should matter to the recruit, which is the perspective i was coming from

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I am not a troll but i do like a good debate, however, ad hominem attacks are usually a sign you have no response.

Of course coaching should matter, you are just treating it was some kind of either-or proposition like a card game where a better hand wins not matter what. But that's not how the world works. Saying 1 coach is better or the best is fine, but you are acting like another coach is so inferior that it hurts a guys development, which is false. All I'm saying is other guys can coach and develop. Why do you seem to disagree? They do coach in the NFL as well, so even if a guy does not get as good of coaching in college, but has natural talent, they will still draft him and coach him there. They do it all the time.

Whether you admit it or not we would be having the exact same discussion (and i have had it) no matter who LSU's DL coach. LSU has a lot to offer a DL no doubt, but he can still get to the NFL from any D1 program, that is simply a fact.

Barry Switzer supposedly told recruits when he was at OU, that if you come to OU, we will compete for the Big 8 title and trip to the Orange Bowl and maybe a National Title. If you don't come to OU, e will compete for the Big 8 title and trip to the Orange Bowl and maybe a National Title. That's how i feel about this kid. If he wants to come to LSU, great, if not, i wish him well, we will be just fine.

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How'd you guess? could be it this statement? "do you even know the DL coach at UH? I don't maybe he's really good as well"

Ed O is great, i love having and because we have him I know we will have a great DL and recruit studs. He is not, alas the only good DL coach out there. The vast majority of DL in the NFL did not play for him, so while it is a great selling point for LSU, come play for Coach O, it is not what will make or break a kids chances to make the NFL.

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I'm really not sure where you're going with any of this.

Coach O has:

- Been a HC at 2 major programs (USC and Ole Miss)
- Been a DC at a major program (USC)
- Been a DL coach at major college programs (Miami, Syracuse & USC) as well as in the NFL (New Orleans and Tennessee)
- Been a RC at a major college program (USC) & in NFL (Tennessee)

Since you inquired, Houston's DL coach coached at Texas as a DE coach (that's right, DEs only, not DL) from 2005-2013 then landed a job at Louisiana Tech in 2014 as a DL coach and is now at Houston. He's also only a few years younger than Coach O.

So you tell me who's clearly the better DL coach and the better known commodity.

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I'm really not sure where you're going with any of this.

Coach O has:

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In no way am i disputing Coach O's resume, all I'm saying is that guys get to the NFL from all level of college football, but especially all levels of D1. However, can i assume that you would have argued a kid go to USC when he was there instead of coming to LSU? If not why not?

Also can you explain to what better coaching or lesser coaching means without just listing the # of guys that have gone to the pros. I mean what does the better coach do, exactly? Teach some technique that others can't figure out? Motivate better? What about the coaching at UH do you think would be so detrimental that he doesn't make the pros in your view?

I've had this exact same argument on here many times and people argue for better coaching regardless of who is coaching at LSU. When Tim Williams was considering Miami, I had people telling me it would hurt his chances of making the NFL, seriously. Now just this past summer the Vikings DC (or maybe DL coach) was ripping the college coaching of Hunter, yet he still was drafted (as were several other LSU guys that played under Haley). That's the other part you guys miss, they do coach them up in the NFL. Any flaws in the players game the pros think they can fix. So at the end of the day, it is still talent that gets him to the NFL, if he gets there. He's 6' whatever, 300 lbs and quick. As long as he plays and plays well, the pro scouts will adjust their evaluations based on level of comp and coaching. They always do.

You guys on the other hand are LSU fans trying to find a reason he should go to LSU other than that's just what we want. Now you're not wrong, he would get good(better in the case o Coach O) coaching here, have better teammates and play better competition and be in position to get more media attention which all helps, but by no means is going to a non P5 program a death knell to his chances of making the pros, that's all I'm saying.

I'm seriously not understanding where you're going with this. Yes, sometimes small time coaches become big time, BUT:

I simply laid out both resumes for you now. Their DL coach is no longer a mystery. Who clearly has the better resume and would a guy rather play for? Answer is obvious. It's not the guy who spent all his time with Mack Brown as a DE coach (not even DL) and the best gig he could land after that was Louisiana Tech..

Take it for what its worth, but meet Herman a few months back, Ed cam up at one point and he seemed pretty confident that they land him.

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I'm saying is that guys get to the NFL from all level of college football,

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Sure, but if your kid had the chance to learn from Joe blow at UH or a proven coach that has coached numerous NFL and HOF players, which would you push your kid towards?

If it was my kid he would go play for the latter. You are talking millions dollars here, this is not a decision to be taken lightly.

Poe was a 2 star prospect. you're getting away from the point. If he had an opportunity to play for a bigger school with more to offer, he would have

you're right, Its a commuter school with less resources geared towards its athletics program. Oliver just really values his personal relationships and thats fine... Just don't tell me that UH will do a good a job getting him to the League as LSU would because thats just stupid.

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Poe was a 2 star prospect. you're getting away from the point

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No, you guys are getting away from the point, my point is simply that guys get to the NFL from any level, especially from D1. However, if Poe was a 2 star that became a top 10 pick doesn't that indicate that even smaller programs with "bad" coaches can develop?

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Just don't tell me that UH will do just a good a job getting him to the League as LSU would because thats just stupid.

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I'm sorry, but it is not stupid. The disconnect is that you seem to think that the players natural talent is of secondary importance and it is the coaching and overall program is what gets guys to the league and I'm saying the opposite. Talent is the most important factor and the other stuff, while important is of secondary importance. The other disconnect you guys have is think that because a program is lesser, which is clearly the case, that it somehow because the coaching is "worse". There are a lot of reasons why LSU is a better program. Now, is just comparing the DL coaches, of course Ed O is better, but you don't coach at the D1 level for as long as the UH guy has, he apparently coached at UT for what 8-10 years? Without having a base level of coaching competence. I'm serious when I ask what exactly you guys think entails better vs worse development. The UH DL coach knows the basics about playing DL, he will teach them with a reasonable degree of competence their basic responsibilities in whatever D front they run. They have a S&C program, he'll play organized football at a level that the NFL will certainly scout, so why do you think his chances of making the NFL will be materially damaged?

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I'm seriously not understanding where you're going with this.

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obviously, that's because you are having a different argument. You are arguing the quality of DL coaches. I'm saying a guy can get to the NFL from any D1 program. I'm really at a loss as to why you either don't get that or find it so wrong.

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Their DL coach is no longer a mystery. Who clearly has the better resume and would a guy rather play for? Answer is obvious.

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I never disagreed with that. All I'm saying is that to coach at that level, you have to have a base level of competence. He may not be elite or be in line for a bigger job, but he knows something about DL coaching 101 and that is all that really matters when we are talking about an individual players development. (Now what you want for your college program is an entirely different matter). Anyway, The NFL does not need guys to be "perfectly coached or developed, hell there are some that say they DON"T want that. They can coach and develop up there now (see Minn coach comments regarding Hunter), so as long as kid has the basics down, which he will get playing at a D1 program, if he has the natural talent, they will find and draft him. That is all I am saying, I really don't know why it is so controversial or hard for some of you to grasp, just look at the draft and see how many non P5 guys are drafted in the first round (and he doesn't need to go in the first to play for a long time in the NFL, we have quite an extensive list of LSU guys that fit that category.)

Anyway, I'd love this kid to come to LSU, but if he doesn't I wish him well and won't sweat it because I know Coach O will recruit us another stud and coach him up.