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re: The less glamorous side of video game development

Posted on 10/5/14 at 6:40 pm to
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37279 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 6:40 pm to
quote:

I think game development just got more expensive either way but I do think they mismanage a lot.


Maybe. I think it has more to do with the event/blockbuster attitude on every single game.

quote:

They would rarely pass the savings on to their employees though. Just like everywhere, they are filled with selfish corporate executives that can't live on 500k anymore. They need to feed their kids, ya know?


It sucks, but this will always be the rule.

quote:

My buddy's dad had cancer a few years ago for example. The man was on his death bed and died within the week. There were 2 co-owners he worked for. 1 told him to take as much time as he needs and he will always have a place for Him. The other told him that the job still needs to get done and they can't just stop for him. Some people are just selfish.


That's harsh, but not surprising.
Posted by DrSteveBrule
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
12007 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 6:43 pm to
quote:

The abuse of their workers as a video game mill is largely our faults. They have to produce quantity because we refuse to accept that we should really be paying over $100 for games nowadays.


Well that, and gamers in general are too short-sighted to realize that the death of the used game market is a huge benefit to both developers and gamers (sales). They whined what Microsoft was trying to do with the One out of existence.
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:19 pm to
True but gamers also have to look out for themselves. If you spend $60 then you don't want a piece of shite you can't sell back. Self control and patience are not an option.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37279 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:24 pm to
quote:

If you spend $60 then you don't want a piece of shite you can't sell back. Self control and patience are not an option.


This is critical to a lot of markets. Buying a bad game for $60 that you can't do anything with Post-Purchase is a terrible idea. People would be even more careful and buy games. But maybe this helps the market correct itself.
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:27 pm to
I'm careful on what I'll spend $60 on. It's rare that I do. I only did it for destiny because I played the beta and I got 35 hours out of it before I got tired of it.
Posted by DrSteveBrule
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
12007 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:28 pm to
quote:

True but gamers also have to look out for themselves. If you spend $60 then you don't want a piece of shite you can't sell back. Self control and patience are not an option.


Well that brings up an even bigger problem which is blind pre-ordering based on hype which enables this crap
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:29 pm to
I already said self control went out the window a while ago
Posted by ILikeLSUToo
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2008
18018 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:39 pm to
quote:

Why does it have to go up? Shouldn't they figure out how to be more efficient and spend less on things like marketing, and lower the cost of games rather than continue to raise it?


k.

Glad I could amuse you?

But to answer your question(s) about figuring out how to be more efficient (any ideas, btw?), "they" are doing just that. But that efficiency is in the form of lower pay and longer hours. Games have never been cheaper, considering you'd be paying $50+ for an NES game, if not more, 25 years ago.

At the same time, it has never cost more to develop a well thought-out original game. More employees, more time, and a larger audience to please. Technology doesn't change the efficiency of writing/story development, voice acting, and bug testing. It all takes humans. The bigger the game, the more humans it takes. The problem is the market is not willing to scale up in what we pay for games in the same way as manpower has scaled up to meet demand. So, when it comes to the blockbusters, instead of paying $100 for Skyrim and $19.99 for the newest re-skin of [sports game], we pay $60 for both the former and the latter, and get far, far more of the latter.

So yep, it's getting efficient all right, and it's probably really, really shitty to work for a game developer and try to have a family life.
This post was edited on 10/5/14 at 7:41 pm
Posted by Mear
Member since Oct 2010
4836 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:43 pm to
van Gogh and Mozart probably worked more than 40 hours a week to make art

just sayin'
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:44 pm to
It would be a shite storm if they tried to make new games $70. It probably should happen but it would explode. Of course as gaming gets bigger and sales go up that helps plus the rise of digital does help.

To me the issue with development schedules isn't the hours. Plenty of people work long hours and I think most understand it. It's the lack of respect a lot of these guys get from their employer. I've had jobs where I worked a lot but my boss handled it well enough for me to be OK with it. You hear about ea a lot, not surprising, but you don't hear people from naughty dog complain as much. It's because they have a history of being a good developer.
Posted by dizerik
Lake Chuck
Member since Mar 2009
8434 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:55 pm to
quote:

Posted by Mr Gardoki
It definitely sucks, I wonder what 40 hour week jobs are left because I want one. I would even take 50 if I still got off days consistently.



I work 40 hours or less every week and so does my wife. I haven't worked an 80 hour pay period in months and I wouldn't change it for the world. Sure, they offer overtime at work all the time but frick that. I spend enough time in that hanger. I wanna be home with my kid and wife.
This post was edited on 10/5/14 at 7:56 pm
Posted by ILikeLSUToo
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2008
18018 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 7:55 pm to
quote:

It would be a shite storm if they tried to make new games $70.


It would be and will be, and it won't help that it will be for the same quality of content.
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 8:00 pm to
Are you hiring?

quote:

It would be and will be, and it won't help that it will be for the same quality of content.

At some point they may just have to bite the bullet. Somehow over the years games got cheaper even with inflation.
This post was edited on 10/5/14 at 8:03 pm
Posted by dizerik
Lake Chuck
Member since Mar 2009
8434 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 8:03 pm to


I used to put tons of hours in but that shite got me nowhere. I was stressed and tired all the time and still watching managers relatives and shite get promoted so I said frick it. Stop accepting extra responsibilities and just go in and do my thing then leave whenever I wanna go home. Since I started doing that I got promoted...its a fricking weird place to work.
This post was edited on 10/5/14 at 8:04 pm
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 8:07 pm to
I'm the same way. I kept sacrificing more and more and my work just kept taking. I finally said frick it. I'll do my job and do it well but I'm going to take care of myself too.
Posted by ILikeLSUToo
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2008
18018 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 8:17 pm to
It would take so much adjustment for me to survive in the typical corporate world if I had to change jobs. Working from home, occasional visit to the office, flexible hours (Sometimes I start work at 10am, stop at 3pm, start again at 9pm and finish up at midnight). The tradeoff is that I'll get put on a huge project a couple times a year that will have me doing 60 hr weeks for a couple of weeks, along with 2 or 3 all-nighters towards the end. I actually enjoy those, though. Gives me purpose and a sense of accomplishment. Doing it all the time would get old quickly though.
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 8:20 pm to
That makes sense. The issue comes from the lifestyle. People just get inefficient after a while.
Posted by ILikeLSUToo
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2008
18018 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 8:25 pm to
I would probably benefit from a structured office environment. There are some days where I just don't even get dressed until I have to go pick up the kids from day care.
Posted by Mr Gardoki
AL
Member since Apr 2010
27652 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 8:26 pm to
my issue is I waste too much time. I have some attention issues for sure. At home I would be out of control.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37279 posts
Posted on 10/5/14 at 8:54 pm to
quote:

k.

Glad I could amuse you?

But to answer your question(s) about figuring out how to be more efficient (any ideas, btw?), "they" are doing just that. But that efficiency is in the form of lower pay and longer hours. Games have never been cheaper, considering you'd be paying $50+ for an NES game, if not more, 25 years ago.

At the same time, it has never cost more to develop a well thought-out original game. More employees, more time, and a larger audience to please. Technology doesn't change the efficiency of writing/story development, voice acting, and bug testing. It all takes humans. The bigger the game, the more humans it takes. The problem is the market is not willing to scale up in what we pay for games in the same way as manpower has scaled up to meet demand. So, when it comes to the blockbusters, instead of paying $100 for Skyrim and $19.99 for the newest re-skin of [sports game], we pay $60 for both the former and the latter, and get far, far more of the latter.

So yep, it's getting efficient all right, and it's probably really, really shitty to work for a game developer and try to have a family life.


Efficiency in a positive, meaningful direction. The idea is that games don't have to cost that much. The rising budget for a game is relative to the amount we focus on event games, big games, etc. The market split itself into large companies making large, massive games and small companies making indie games. There's little room in between, and that stinks for gamers.

Inflation has SNES games at $70 I believe.

I agree. But that's the thing, it DOESN'T have to cost more. Not every game has to be a blockbuster, that's the issue. Rather than trying to just make games, everything has to be "New big thing," everything is an event. If the industry adjusted away from everything having to be the "Best game ever," and just a really fun game, then there might be a change. I mean heck, when both Titanfall and Destiny were announced they were supposed to "Change games forever," Destiny itself was supposed to be a 10 year game...hype hype hype. Of course that makes budgets bloat. But maybe you're right if we did raise the price of games it would calm the buying process of the general gamer down.

Yet the world needs more programmers in actually useful fields. I'm sure any decent programmer could find a job outside of the industry, they just don't want to.

quote:

The bigger the game, the more humans it takes. The problem is the market is not willing to scale up in what we pay for games in the same way as manpower has scaled up to meet demand. So, when it comes to the blockbusters, instead of paying $100 for Skyrim and $19.99 for the newest re-skin of [sports game], we pay $60 for both the former and the latter, and get far, far more of the latter.


And if gamers stopped buying the latter, there would be no latter. As long as it works, companies will do it. Especially when the latter can sell truckloads of games. Madden here, FIFA in Europe. CoD everywhere.
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