re: Official League of Legends Thread

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u have a tanky jungler and an assassin mid lane, I've been able to call a pre-6 dive on bot lane, when we have them pushed under tower.

BUT... it is really, really hard to explain how to prep the wave to a retarded ADC. So, it's best just to hope he's at an item buy point and beg him to go back and miss the CS. It's much easier than having to actually explain it. "Miss CS so we can back and buy and execute a dive." --- So much easier than the following actual stay and dive discussion.

Basically, you have to bait the opposite adc into trading (thus drawing minion agro), convince your adc to let a few cs go, and repeat for a second wave. This builds a higher enemy minion wave. Then, you have to poke the other bot lane and reduce their health to ease the difficulty of the dive, but you still need to manage to slow push to the tower. It takes 4-5 waves to make it happen.
AND, mid/jungle has to plan to path/prep to roam without losing other objectives.

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Makes sense to me, although it seems like a tall task to not only setup, but to execute and do so in a timely manner where your jungler will actually be in the right place at the right time

This is why I like playing top lane.

I sit up there, by myself and just farm. Oh, look, my teammate jungler is here, go in, get kill/force flash, go back to farming.

Doing this is even more satisfying by playing gangplank and just pressing R at opportune times

Would seem to me missing cs on purpose or baiting the adc to attack you to draw minion aggro, would stack the wave so it pushes towards the allied tower.

Seems optimal for a gank, but not a dive.

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would stack the wave so it pushes towards the allied tower. Seems optimal for a gank, but not a dive.

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Yes, then it stacks the wave with your minions when it pushes back. and then you can force it under turret.
Good for ganking, trading, and pushing to turret for dive.

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So glad c9 won to go to worlds. Sad that Pobelter couldn't go however.

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As soon as they got rid of lane swaps, Impact and Sneaky easily made C9 the 2nd best team in NA.

CLG/IMT were able to use early tower trades to let the Top/Jungle synergy overcome laning issues. Now that Huni/Darshan don't get free transition into the mid game.... and Turtle/Stixxay have to spend time 2v2 laning.... it is really apparent how much better DL/Sneaky and Impact (and somewhat Hauntzer) are.

The TSM/C9 matchup showed how close Impact/Jensen were to Hauntzer/Bjergsen. And I felt the bot lanes were pretty even. Svenskeren being a lot better than Meteos is what determined the series. Game 2 and Game 4 were both really close, and it really came down to one play/fight in both games that turned it in favor of TSM.

I feel sorry for the team that draws C9 at worlds, because they are way better than a 3rd seed/ Wildcard team.

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I watched Monte stream his VoD review of the series. The stuff he pointed out on the macro level that I didn't look for made it pretty clear that TSM pretty much did whatever they wanted to.

C9 is drastically improved in this meta and is easily the 2nd best NA team. I actually expect them to make some noise if they get a favorable group. Impact has gone full SKT the past two weeks.

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I watched the Monte Vods last night. The two things that really stood out from his commentary was the ability to press advantages and the difference in jungle synergy.

When C9 had a large lead in Game 1, it still took them a long time to close out the game. When TSM got a big advantage in Game 2, they just crushed.
However, Monte specifically pointed to game 3?? IIRC where C9 lanes got ahead, but TSM was able to use a better macro to come back and win. He said that they won't be able to do that against better teams.

This brings me to the 2nd point.... which is probably a big part of why TSM was much better at the macro game. Jungle synergy. So many times in multiple games, Monte would point out that some members of C9 were trying to make a play, but Meteos would be on the other side of the map or doing Red or something else.... Or Jensen hadn't rotated over in time. They just weren't able to be in the right place when they needed to be. However, TSM was usually setting up to make the team play 1-2 minutes early.
And I don't even mean that it is a language communication issue.... because Impact was almost always where he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there.
They just didn't always play around choosing the right times to make plays. Sven/TSM being in the right places and making strong calls won them the series pretty easily. And Meteos being in the wrong places and the team not making great calls lost it for C9.

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Now, I'd like to talk about the individual players.
Monte thought that TSM could win their group at worlds with good matchups, and thought they would probably be in the top 5.... maybe beating RNG and making it to Semis.
The issues are going to be that Sven still makes questionable decisions. One fight around the raptor camp was pretty obvious. Bodyslams over the wall to smite raptors, but then doesn't ult or flash and just gets blown up. And for what? What was the play?
On the other hand, he made a lot of plays happen, constantly outperformed the other jungler, and pressed the team advantage.
Hauntzer may be able to hold his own Top lane, but he won't be one of the best players at worlds.
Bjerg will be Top 2 midlaner.
Double was given Top 4 behind Deft, Pray, and Bang. And debated about with Uzi as Top5.
SO, they have the skill to be competitive... and the macro play that won't necessarily win/lose the game for them. Therefore, I would basically call it a skill matchup for them.

C9----
Impact is definitely a monster in his current form. He wanted to win the series so bad that he almost hard carried C9 despite the poor macro play. He'll be a one of the best Top laners at worlds.
Jensen can probably hold his own versus the field.
Same can probably be said for Sneaky. He did really well this series and popped off several times. It was macro play that really cost them.
Smoothie has got to be the most improved on the team. I'm glad that he has won the gig. Monte... or the other guy in the vid basically said that he has filled Hai's roll due to his strong shotcalling voice and good feel for the game.
Meteos didn't do poorly. He just has been lacking in knowing when and where to be. And when to call off the gank. Overpursuing on the Zak in Game 2 probably cost them that game.
I think they can do well in groups, and maybe make it out of groups depending on the draw, but they'll have to do it through pure skill or improving their macro play.

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TL;DR:
Sven map awareness >> Meteos. = TSM macro > C9
TSM Quarters/Semis team. Top 5 team.
Bjerg/DL Top 5 at position.
Impact Top 5 Toplane.
Jensen/Sneaky Ok.
C9 Might get out of Groups.

I watched three of them. Tsm went 2-1 in the ones I saw.

The one loss, faker was on azir and hard countered hauntzers gnar. Bjerg's malz and double on Lucian couldn't do enough damage late to finish the game. They were close in gold throughout and just lost in the baron pit. Interesting parts were a decision to give up baron for two bot towers and inhib. But it later cost them bot and mid inhib turrets.
Macro was pretty close and individual skill was close. Just a close match in general.

The two other wins I question the applicability. Seemed like skt had some weird team comps. However, bjergsen did go the frick off and skt couldn't do shite about it.

Double said on stream that it is bad to talk about scrim results because good seems like bragging and bad disappoints the fans. I say a third point is that scrims aren't always teams going full try hard. They could be using it to try things and get information. So wins/losses to me seem less important than watching the pure skill. To me, all three skt lanes seemed to be slightly better than tsm. And tsm was able to stay close or win through team comps and macro. That means that they are viable contenders, but really need to stay strong in p/b and shotcalling. First na team with a legit chance to win it all.